NCAA Coaching Styles

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Oracle
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NCAA Coaching Styles

Post by Oracle » Sun Mar 21, 2021 11:25 am

Amazing tournament. Unbelievable competition. West coast teams, again, spring surprises. But what struck me most, watching from my PC and on ESPN, was the coaching styles of certain programs.

Iowa won it but showed an Achilles heel in the process. The 'in-your-face ' directly after the DeSanto cons final was stunning.

In general, it's genuinely funny to watch coaches shout instructions to their wrestler during the match. First of all, the opponent can hear it. Secondly, if this is what will make the difference after all these years leading up to the NCAAs, then that's problematic. Lastly, it's simply 'over-coaching' -- kind of like 'over-acting.'

IMO, coaches should be helping their guy with clock management, as in : "there's 30 seconds left." Also reminding about cautions and warnings and OOB strategy to avoid a warning --- NOT how to wrestle the match. The wrestlers typically ignore it so why jump up and down and shout constantly during the bout?

That's certainly one thing I have never seen a Lehigh coach do. Leeman didn't do it. Turner didn't, Strobel didn't. And Santoro doesn't.

As an aside, Shane Griffith winning was terrific. That guy is awesome. Don't hold your breath that Stanford will re-instate. If they don't, does he transfer to the B1G? Or go Ivy -- where he'd likely only have 2 years remaining (he probably has too many credits after 3 years at Stanford and Ivies don't allow grads.) Northwestern might work if academic degree is his desire...close in terms of quality to Stanford. Or perhaps Rutgers to be close to home. I would think Lehigh would definitely recruit him but how seriously he would consider LU is unknown.

BTW, I have invested zero time in critiquing Lehigh's NCAA performance. On we go.


whiz wit
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Re: NCAA Coaching Styles

Post by whiz wit » Sun Mar 21, 2021 11:42 am

Oracle wrote in part,

"In general, it's genuinely funny to watch coaches shout instructions to their wrestler during the match. First of all, the opponent can hear it. Secondly, if this is what will make the difference after all these years leading up to the NCAAs, then that's problematic. Lastly, it's simply 'over-coaching' -- kind of like 'over-acting.'"

As a spectator I find it incredibly annoying to have to listen to some coach yelling non stop during the course of a bout. Fortunately, it's not common. I wonder how much of it is realistically trying to help his wrestler and how much is trying to impress others.
jdalu75
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Re: NCAA Coaching Styles

Post by jdalu75 » Sun Mar 21, 2021 12:23 pm

Oracle wrote: Sun Mar 21, 2021 11:25 am
In general, it's genuinely funny to watch coaches shout instructions to their wrestler during the match. First of all, the opponent can hear it. Secondly, if this is what will make the difference after all these years leading up to the NCAAs, then that's problematic. Lastly, it's simply 'over-coaching' -- kind of like 'over-acting.'
When my son played youth baseball I noticed that, a couple of times when he was on weak teams, the worst part of the team was the coach. They couldn't go out there and play themselves, but they could signal for bunts, steals, and to take pitches. It made them think they could influence the games. One time his coach got half the team's baserunners thrown out on the bases (three out of six) in a single game, through stupidity and thinking he could control the game from the coach's box.

Wrestling coaches can't signal for ill-advised steals, but they can yell. Same principle.
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Richb-3
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Re: NCAA Coaching Styles

Post by Richb-3 » Sun Mar 21, 2021 1:53 pm

Remember when a coach would tell his guys how to wrestle against Steve Shields, Scott Christie, Dave Waters, and our guys would impose themselves between and give a big thumbs up kind of signal;
Richb-3
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Re: NCAA Coaching Styles

Post by Richb-3 » Sun Mar 21, 2021 1:58 pm

On the other hand, Remember Fletcher and Joe Carr coached at Kentucky, screaming at their guys the whole time.

Which leads me to the subject of ESPN talking about David Carr, and not mentioning any of his wrestling Uncles (those 2, Jimmy, Solomon) (there were more brothers, but I don't think much wrestling impact)
jdalu75
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Re: NCAA Coaching Styles

Post by jdalu75 » Sun Mar 21, 2021 4:00 pm

Then there was the coach who coached his wrestler right into Tom Bold's mousetrap, in 1980. Featured highlight on the "Coaches who should have left well enough alone" video.
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lu_alum
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Re: NCAA Coaching Styles

Post by lu_alum » Sun Mar 21, 2021 4:46 pm

Oracle wrote: Sun Mar 21, 2021 11:25 am Amazing tournament. Unbelievable competition. West coast teams, again, spring surprises. But what struck me most, watching from my PC and on ESPN, was the coaching styles of certain programs.

In general, it's genuinely funny to watch coaches shout instructions to their wrestler during the match. First of all, the opponent can hear it. Secondly, if this is what will make the difference after all these years leading up to the NCAAs, then that's problematic. Lastly, it's simply 'over-coaching' -- kind of like 'over-acting.'

IMO, coaches should be helping their guy with clock management, as in : "there's 30 seconds left." Also reminding about cautions and warnings and OOB strategy to avoid a warning --- NOT how to wrestle the match. The wrestlers typically ignore it so why jump up and down and shout constantly during the bout?

That's certainly one thing I have never seen a Lehigh coach do. Leeman didn't do it. Turner didn't, Strobel didn't. And Santoro doesn't.
I recall an anecdote in the Strobel book where he told Zinck not to go over/under w Joe Johnston of Iowa in an NCAA consolation bout - for the sole purpose of goading Johnston into Zinck’s headlock.
HFO
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Re: NCAA Coaching Styles

Post by HFO » Wed Mar 24, 2021 3:41 pm

There is quite a bit in journal research articles on coaching.
Coaching is about preparing another mentally and physically for any endeavor, not just sports performance.
In case of combat sports,
1. Stance: Right, Left, Middle...what is tendency. Are they dominant, or functionally adept from any stance.
2. Techniques: Right attack, Frontal attack, Left attack. Top 5 technique executions on each side. % completion. Time of match. etc. What does the wrestler ultimately do well?
3. Grip to time of attack: Fast, Medium, Slow. What type of handfighting, griping, etc. Purpose: To stall or to establish advanced position.
4. Attacks per minute: Any predictable sequences, predictable time of match. % success of 1st attack, 2nd attack, 3rd attack, etc. Does the wrestler predictably fade as match goes on or do they get better more selective?
5. Penalties/Rules Infractions: What ones? When in match? Is it a tertiary factor in strategy to push toward penalty point?

In old days, it was cursory. These days, I would assume Lehigh is coding video into a statistical program. If it doesn't have one, it should go develop one with the mathematics department and computer science.

Great coaches know how to connect with their athletes. It is a trust relationship. The Coach Crowell at Nazareth HS is amongst the best I have ever seen take an average athlete and then coach him up to a State Top 4 contender. Year in, Year out, didn't matter which school, whether Easton, Wilson, Nazareth, he has that ability to breakdown his own wrestler and the wrestlers competitor and put in place strategy as well a comprehensive training program year round to develop athletes mentally and physically. Then you look at other schools in LV that might have the superior athlete, but coach cannot convert that to a State Champion ever after 20 years of coaching.
gimpeltf
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Re: NCAA Coaching Styles

Post by gimpeltf » Wed Mar 24, 2021 5:55 pm

HFO wrote: Wed Mar 24, 2021 3:41 pm What type of ... griping, etc.
I agree there is a wide variety of griping amongst coaches. Amongst fans, too, as you can tell from this forum.
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