Lehigh Lafayette

Back-to-back PL champs 2016 and 2017.... but need to get back to relevance in the national FCS scene.
TMH
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Re: Lehigh Lafayette

Post by TMH » Wed Apr 14, 2021 4:47 pm

RichH wrote: Wed Apr 14, 2021 1:58 pm
van wrote: Wed Apr 14, 2021 1:50 pm How about we put the QB under center and let tailback start to run at snap instead of standing like a statue until QB takes snap does a little danc3 and hands off just in time for DL to get penetration
Another better option for sure.
Again, I'm not an offensive guru so help me. If we start the QB under center, there seems to be an advantage to the running game but only if the designated hole opens up....correct? There is little or no option to be had if it does not. Isn't it a disadvantage though on passing plays especially for pocket passers which Wilkinson seems to be?


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van
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Re: Lehigh Lafayette

Post by van » Wed Apr 14, 2021 6:18 pm

In shotgun the QB gets to read the field better, so on a pass ply that should be an advantage, but if he is turning his back to the field to take run option that goes away, under center play action slows the pass rush and since we have no run O with current scheme the QB is always under pressure, see spring results, I would put QB under center to try to establish some sort of run game, use a H back some, be less predictable
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RichH
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Re: Lehigh Lafayette

Post by RichH » Wed Apr 14, 2021 6:53 pm

TMH wrote: Wed Apr 14, 2021 4:47 pm
RichH wrote: Wed Apr 14, 2021 1:58 pm
van wrote: Wed Apr 14, 2021 1:50 pm How about we put the QB under center and let tailback start to run at snap instead of standing like a statue until QB takes snap does a little danc3 and hands off just in time for DL to get penetration
Another better option for sure.
Again, I'm not an offensive guru so help me. If we start the QB under center, there seems to be an advantage to the running game but only if the designated hole opens up....correct? There is little or no option to be had if it does not. Isn't it a disadvantage though on passing plays especially for pocket passers which Wilkinson seems to be?
On dive series runs the only option is for the RB to bounce out if there is no hole. Even in that set the QB can have the option to pull the ball and either pass or run himself. Think back to Whitehead's version of the Wing T.QB had that option on most plays.QB could hand off or if DE crashing keep it and run or pull the ball and pass to the other HB in the flat or downfield.
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Re: Lehigh Lafayette

Post by Sundayamqb » Wed Apr 14, 2021 8:33 pm

[/quote]
Think back to Whitehead's version of the Wing T.QB had that option on most plays.QB could hand off or if DE crashing keep it and run or pull the ball and pass to the other HB in the flat or downfield.
[/quote]

Gotta love the old Wing T!
TMH
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Re: Lehigh Lafayette

Post by TMH » Wed Apr 14, 2021 9:13 pm

Sundayamqb wrote: Wed Apr 14, 2021 8:33 pm
Think back to Whitehead's version of the Wing T.QB had that option on most plays.QB could hand off or if DE crashing keep it and run or pull the ball and pass to the other HB in the flat or downfield.
[/quote]

Gotta love the old Wing T!
[/quote]

They say that the memory is the first thing to go so forgive this old man.
I do remember that Whitehead nemesis Tubby Raymond ran the Wing T to perfection but my recollection of Lehigh under Whitehead (Right after I graduated) was pretty much Air Lehigh. If I have any recollection left...the QBs were Sterrett, a couple of years of Reiker, Andres and then like 4 years of Marty Horn. I don't recall any of them taking off much, but then again I get my kids names mixed up too.

I remember reading an article about the 1977 team. Whitehead and Gilmore have more in common than one might think.
Found it and it appears John used the option in the Championship game after not showing it all year

https://www2.lehigh.edu/news/a-team-to- ... -celebrate

What Rich described to me appears to be the read option but from under center. Seems impossible with a new QB, new faces in the OL, a new OL coach, no spring football, no summer workouts, very limited fall football and very limited practices before spring games.

Just an opinion.
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RichH
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Re: Lehigh Lafayette

Post by RichH » Thu Apr 15, 2021 11:04 am

TMH wrote: Wed Apr 14, 2021 9:13 pm
Sundayamqb wrote: Wed Apr 14, 2021 8:33 pm
Think back to Whitehead's version of the Wing T.QB had that option on most plays.QB could hand off or if DE crashing keep it and run or pull the ball and pass to the other HB in the flat or downfield.
Gotta love the old Wing T!
[/quote]

They say that the memory is the first thing to go so forgive this old man.
I do remember that Whitehead nemesis Tubby Raymond ran the Wing T to perfection but my recollection of Lehigh under Whitehead (Right after I graduated) was pretty much Air Lehigh. If I have any recollection left...the QBs were Sterrett, a couple of years of Reiker, Andres and then like 4 years of Marty Horn. I don't recall any of them taking off much, but then again I get my kids names mixed up too.

I remember reading an article about the 1977 team. Whitehead and Gilmore have more in common than one might think.
Found it and it appears John used the option in the Championship game after not showing it all year

https://www2.lehigh.edu/news/a-team-to- ... -celebrate

What Rich described to me appears to be the read option but from under center. Seems impossible with a new QB, new faces in the OL, a new OL coach, no spring football, no summer workouts, very limited fall football and very limited practices before spring games.

Just an opinion.
[/quote]
Cant claim any better memory from the mists of time. :lol: But, I was there for the beginning of the Wing T at Lehigh in 67-68 under Fred. A carbon copy of Tubby's Wing T initially. When McQuilken came Dunlap expanded the O to a more pass oriented version. That started a remarkable string of high scoring Os and star QBs. In 1975 the NYT highlighted Lehigh's Wing T under Dunlap in an article lauding Lehigh's success. Whitehead did not change our base O but did adapt it for the players he had , Rieker and Kreider. In '77 , we emphasized passing over run options for most of the season, In the Title game vs Jacksonville Whitehead reverted to the base Wing T for most of the game. IIR we rushed for over 300 yds that day. John kept his version of the Wing T until he retired. Hank brought in his AirLehigh Offense.

Guess my point is,regardless of what you call your offense,the key to success is adapting that offense to the players you have. Dunlap did. Whitehead did. Smalls did. Altho I remember Higgins commenting that under Hank all the best athletes went to the offense every year :D
Dont know whether that was a feasible option this past year but the results indicate that the offense set and the players on the field did not match well.
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Re: Lehigh Lafayette

Post by TMH » Thu Apr 15, 2021 1:28 pm

I'm really not sure when we used the Wing T or how much we used it but this thread has made me go back to that era of football. Things have really changed.

The Fred Dunlap era did not start off well at all. He certainly wasn't left with much but until the arrival of Kim McQuilken for the 1971 season, we were 1-8, 0-9, 1-8, 3-7, 4-5-1, 4-6 and our offense was atrocious, having been shut out 9 times during that span. Even in 1970, we scored 14 or less points in 5 of our 10 games and were shut out twice. I think that team had All-Americans in Jamula and Hill on the OLine and Rizzo and Diorio in the backfield.

Imagine what the discussion boards would have looked like then if they existed. :-)
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Re: Lehigh Lafayette

Post by ngineer » Thu Apr 15, 2021 5:20 pm

Very true, TMH. Back then, the only grousing was in the bar rooms. Read Tiger Dunlap's book on his dad, The Dunlap Rules. Enjoyed it very much and brought back tons of memories. Fred was close to getting fired as he and Leckonby did not get along well. However, Lewis liked Fred and if I recall, he stepped in to give him more time. I recall even by 1970, when things started to turn the corner (recall the great upset of Delaware at Taylor), the Brown & White was still spewing crap. Said he came to the Halloween party that year dressed as a football coach and no one guess what he was. The one thing our fast paced, technological society now lacks is patience. "We want it now" is the mantra on one of the ads I hear. I think Gilmore's first two recruiting classes have shown very good talent and promise. It takes time to rebuild and revise a culture. I agree that some fresh thinking or juice is needed for the offense. I love the improvement in the defense. That's where championships start. but we need to be able average more than 20 points/game even with a good D to win consistently.
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Re: Lehigh Lafayette

Post by Richb-3 » Thu Apr 15, 2021 6:06 pm

The three pre McQuilken years each featured a great upset. Lafayette, when the somehow were number 1 in the Lambert Cup, Then Rutgers when they seemed poised to go undefeated in the 100th year anniversary, Then the #1 in D2 Delaware team, with the "5" horseman. (Fred and Whitehead just said don't worry about a blue hen pass, even though Jamula had just gone down with a season ending injury
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Re: Lehigh Lafayette

Post by Sundayamqb » Thu Apr 15, 2021 9:24 pm

Lenny Daniels, Ed Godbolt and Joe Rabuck come to mind as featured backs for some of the years under Whitehead. With three guys moving at any given time in the backfield, there seemed to be lots of sharing -- then there was Mike Ford running wild in one of those 1977 playoff games.

They had lots of talent -- as do our runners now -- and could catch the ball, but not usually rush for a ton of yards. But averaging 31.1 yards a game (1.1 yards a carry, 95 for the 2021 spring season) will bring lots of Ls in the fall no matter how good the D is.

Seemed like pass protection was much better then maybe because the backfield often was loaded.

Defense -- and some quick strike passing opportunities with most QBs of that era -- won Whitehead's teams many games.
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