Villanova

Back-to-back PL champs 2016 and 2017.... but need to get back to relevance in the national FCS scene.
TMH
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Re: Villanova

Post by TMH » Sun Sep 05, 2021 10:56 am

IPSY,
I understand your sentiment but can you describe the championship program that TG inherited?


Go Lehigh TU Owl
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Re: Villanova

Post by Go Lehigh TU Owl » Sun Sep 05, 2021 11:09 am

TMH wrote: Sun Sep 05, 2021 10:56 am IPSY,
I understand your sentiment but can you describe the championship program that TG inherited?
2010 10-2 PL Champs
2011 11-2 PL Champs
2012 10-1
2013 8-3
2014 3-8
2015 6-5
2016 9-3 PL Champs
2017 5-7 PL Champs (they count)
2018 3-8 (obviously a tough situation)
2019 Enter Gilmore

Gilmore literally took over the PL's winningest program of the 2010's...err all-time

Obviously the Coen situation was tragic but it was known, there was time to prepare for the transition. The program simply needed a strong, quality coach to get the ship headed back in the right direction once Andy stepped down. If Lehigh doesn't win the 2017 title I'm not sure he returns in 2018. It "appears" like "most people" associated with the program wanted to give him the chance to be part of a 3peat. They tried the "Paterno HC but assistants run the team" approach and it was ugly. Then Sterrett made the egregious decision to hire Gilmore. Which seems preplanned in hindsight once HC fired him; Kasurba was brought in to start working on the defense and Gilmore headed to Wake to work with Clawson and Higgins for 2018.

Excuses are no more. I'm sorry, I'm not interested in hearing them....
TMH
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Re: Villanova

Post by TMH » Sun Sep 05, 2021 11:42 am

Go Lehigh TU Owl wrote: Sun Sep 05, 2021 11:09 am
TMH wrote: Sun Sep 05, 2021 10:56 am IPSY,
I understand your sentiment but can you describe the championship program that TG inherited?
2010 10-2 PL Champs
2011 11-2 PL Champs
2012 10-1
2013 8-3
2014 3-8
2015 6-5
2016 9-3 PL Champs
2017 5-7 PL Champs (they count)
2018 3-8 (obviously a tough situation)
2019 Enter Gilmore

Gilmore literally took over the PL's winningest program of the 2010's...err all-time

Obviously the Coen situation was tragic but it was known, there was time to prepare for the transition. The program simply needed a strong, quality coach to get the ship headed back in the right direction once Andy stepped down. If Lehigh doesn't win the 2017 title I'm not sure he returns in 2018. It "appears" like "most people" associated with the program wanted to give him the chance to be part of a 3peat. They tried the "Paterno HC but assistants run the team" approach and it was ugly. Then Sterrett made the egregious decision to hire Gilmore. Which seems preplanned in hindsight once HC fired him; Kasurba was brought in to start working on the defense and Gilmore headed to Wake to work with Clawson and Higgins for 2018.

Excuses are no more. I'm sorry, I'm not interested in hearing them....
Maybe I didn't phrase it right. In 2016, we had a great year. From that point on, the program survived on remnants from that program. By 2019, nothing was left.

Andy's staff had not had a good recruiting class in perhaps his last 3 years. The defense was allowing about 40 ppg. The offense which had propelled them to whatever wins they had lost almost everybody. Their all-league kicker/punter graduated leaving them with virtually no experience so even special teams was decimated.
Is that your definition of inheriting a championship program?

Listen, I'm just as disappointed about the game yesterday but pretending that Gilmore inherited a program that should have won the PL in 2019 as several here claimed seems to me to be pie in the sky and setting oneself up for disappointment. Just my opinion.
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Re: Villanova

Post by Go Lehigh TU Owl » Sun Sep 05, 2021 12:00 pm

TMH wrote: Sun Sep 05, 2021 11:42 am
Go Lehigh TU Owl wrote: Sun Sep 05, 2021 11:09 am
TMH wrote: Sun Sep 05, 2021 10:56 am IPSY,
I understand your sentiment but can you describe the championship program that TG inherited?
2010 10-2 PL Champs
2011 11-2 PL Champs
2012 10-1
2013 8-3
2014 3-8
2015 6-5
2016 9-3 PL Champs
2017 5-7 PL Champs (they count)
2018 3-8 (obviously a tough situation)
2019 Enter Gilmore

Gilmore literally took over the PL's winningest program of the 2010's...err all-time

Obviously the Coen situation was tragic but it was known, there was time to prepare for the transition. The program simply needed a strong, quality coach to get the ship headed back in the right direction once Andy stepped down. If Lehigh doesn't win the 2017 title I'm not sure he returns in 2018. It "appears" like "most people" associated with the program wanted to give him the chance to be part of a 3peat. They tried the "Paterno HC but assistants run the team" approach and it was ugly. Then Sterrett made the egregious decision to hire Gilmore. Which seems preplanned in hindsight once HC fired him; Kasurba was brought in to start working on the defense and Gilmore headed to Wake to work with Clawson and Higgins for 2018.

Excuses are no more. I'm sorry, I'm not interested in hearing them....
Maybe I didn't phrase it right. In 2016, we had a great year. From that point on, the program survived on remnants from that program. By 2019, nothing was left.

Andy's staff had not had a good recruiting class in perhaps his last 3 years. The defense was allowing about 40 ppg. The offense which had propelled them to whatever wins they had lost almost everybody. Their all-league kicker/punter graduated leaving them with virtually no experience so even special teams was decimated.
Is that your definition of inheriting a championship program?

Listen, I'm just as disappointed about the game yesterday but pretending that Gilmore inherited a program that should have won the PL in 2019 as several here claimed seems to me to be pie in the sky and setting oneself up for disappointment. Just my opinion.
They still held it together to win the title in 2017, beat Lafayette and limped into the playoffs. Hell, for 60 minutes they put together a great performance against Lafayette to send Andy out a winner despite all the issues. There was still a positive culture despite the tragic events that were unfolding.

There's no question that Andy's situation took a toll but it never, ever should have resulted in this type of freefall. With the right hire this level of "awful" does not occur. A bad situation became worse by hiring a below average coach who surrounds him self with below average assistants. The Mack Brown of the PL Tom Gilmore is not.....

Richmond beat Howard 38-14. The Bison have 4 winning seasons this century and are coming off 4-6 and 2-10 seasons (no spring 2020 season). They're coached by Mike London who won the 2008 National Title at Richmond. The year after Dave Clawson departed for Bowling Green.....
TMH
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Re: Villanova

Post by TMH » Sun Sep 05, 2021 12:08 pm

Reminder that we haven't begun the Patriot League schedule yet.

In 2016, when we went 9-2 in the season, we lost 64-21 to the only nationally ranked team we faced New Hampshire 21/22 in the playoffs.

In 2017, when we held it together to win the P/L with an All-American RB and All-American QB, we lost to unranked Stony Brook 59-29 when we ventured outside the PL

and as you pointed out, it went downhill from there in 2018. The cupboards were bare in 2019.

Am I wrong about any of that?
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Re: Villanova

Post by Go Lehigh TU Owl » Sun Sep 05, 2021 12:18 pm

TMH wrote: Sun Sep 05, 2021 12:08 pm Reminder that we haven't begun the Patriot League schedule yet.

In 2016, when we went 9-2 in the season, we lost 64-21 to the only nationally ranked team we faced New Hampshire 21/22 in the playoffs.

In 2017, when we held it together to win the P/L with an All-American RB and All-American QB, we lost to unranked Stony Brook 59-29 when we ventured outside the PL

and as you pointed out, it went downhill from there in 2018. The cupboards were bare in 2019.

Am I wrong about any of that?
TMH need to do more homework. I appreciate your efforts but there's more info out here....

Lehigh lost 26-21 to 9-4 #11/#13 Villanova. They also beat 8-2 Princeton who SHOULD have been ranked if it wasn't for an IL bias nationally due to no playoff participation. Also took down 7-3 Penn 49- 28

Shafnisky getting mono and Folmar heading to Elon did Lehigh no favors against UNH. That and the 2013 Lafayette game are my two biggest disappointments of the Coen era. I drove to Durham to attend that debacle. Lehigh entered that game on a roll and were a bit of sleeper to make it to the semi's. Especially after Colgate beat UNH and JMU the year before.

Overall, 2016 was damn good team who finished ranked #18/#21 in the country. Just an unfortunate ending...

edit: also of note, Stony Brook was 10-3 in 2017 and finished ranked #10/#11. Closer to #1 than #26...
LHFtball
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Re: Villanova

Post by LHFtball » Sun Sep 05, 2021 12:51 pm

Okay, let’s keep it simple.

Lehigh hired a coach who was fired under a team mutiny at Holy Cross in 2017. That team under new leadership has won PL titles in 2019 and 2020. They just beat UConn.

Lehigh has scored fewer points every year under this OC, culminating with 19 points in last 4 games. (11 first downs and 1 RZ trip yesterday, off turnover)

Lehigh has recycled assistant coaches at a rate that impacts chemistry and continuity.

Lehigh brings in heralded recruits that are not panning out.

So I ask you all….where does the blame for this lie?

Have at it.
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Re: Villanova

Post by Hawkineer » Sun Sep 05, 2021 1:29 pm

LHFtball wrote: Sun Sep 05, 2021 12:51 pm Okay, let’s keep it simple.

Lehigh hired a coach who was fired under a team mutiny at Holy Cross in 2017. That team under new leadership has won PL titles in 2019 and 2020. They just beat UConn.

Lehigh has scored fewer points every year under this OC, culminating with 19 points in last 4 games. (11 first downs and 1 RZ trip yesterday, off turnover)

Lehigh has recycled assistant coaches at a rate that impacts chemistry and continuity.

Lehigh brings in heralded recruits that are not panning out.

So I ask you all….where does the blame for this lie?

Have at it.
It couldn’t be simpler- Sterrett! The buck stops with him. Despite all of the warning signs and mediocrity at HC, he still chose to hire Gilmore.
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Re: Villanova

Post by LUEngineer » Sun Sep 05, 2021 2:00 pm

Lehigh had deteriorated badly in Andy’s last few years & were totally non competitive outside the Patriot League.

You have to give Gilmore time to build back this season. Personally would like to see Stambaugh hired as OC.
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Re: Villanova

Post by TMH » Sun Sep 05, 2021 3:16 pm

I want to preface everthing I post by saying even though I'm on the other side of the fence from may posters right now, I thoroughly enjoy the debate. It beats silence. I prefer to situate myself on the optimistic side of realism because it sucks be negative about everything. :-)

"Shafnisky getting mono and Folmar heading to Elon did Lehigh no favors against UNH"

Lehigh lost because they gave up 64 points. Neither Shafnisky nor Folmar had anything to do with that. Losing Caslow in the Lafayette game may have though. Speaking of Folmar though, I was sitting on the opposite side of that fence when the same posters were blaming him for the 6-5 season that followed the 9-2 season. The Cechinni bandwagon was roaring then too. Drew built probably one of the best offenses in Lehigh history. Yes..I get it Brisson is no Folmar but if you find another one that's available, send it to TG.

I've been thinking about culture lately. I know I'm repeating this but Higgins inherited a winning program and then had 1 winning season in his 1st 4 years. People questioned that decision loudly and wanted him replaced. Glad Sterrett didn't listen to the fans then either. In lacrosse, Kevin Cassese was one of the hottest coaching commodities on the market in 2008 and still is. He had 3 losing seasons in his first 4. He had to establish his own culture with his own players to be successful. Caitlyn Dallmeyer inherited a bad program in field hockey. Just like Cassese, she was a star at Duke and knew what it takes to build a culture. After 4 years, the program has now turned the corner.
At 68, I'm still willing to be patient.
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