Villanova

Back-to-back PL champs 2016 and 2017.... but need to get back to relevance in the national FCS scene.
Go Lehigh TU Owl
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Re: Villanova

Post by Go Lehigh TU Owl » Wed Sep 07, 2022 6:48 pm

lfnadmin wrote: Wed Sep 07, 2022 2:15 pm
Go Lehigh TU Owl wrote: Wed Sep 07, 2022 10:14 am
lfnadmin wrote: Wed Sep 07, 2022 1:56 am snip
I am personally not bashing Gilmore rather stating that based on observed evidence over the course of his head coaching career that he is a below average coach incapable of turning this ship around. I firmly stand my ground that he will never succeed at Lehigh at the level Higgins, Lembo and Coen did. Nor come close. Plus, I seriously question his demeanor/ability to control his emotions for the betterment of the team/program.

The Villanova game went almost exactly how I anticipated. Better, because you can't get worse than "historically" bad, but still nowhere close to good enough. Which is why I had it 44-17....

Chuck, I appreciate the time you put in covering Lehigh football but I challenge your predictions (generally extremely skewed) and overview of the state of Lehigh football based the fact I think your takes are significantly flawed due to bias and a predetermined agenda to shed as positive a light as possible on the Lehigh program given your time at CSJ. It's basically your civic responsibility to always take a glass-half full approach....

BTW, how about the mess Dakosty took over at Colgate with little to time to adapt as a head coach? Led them to a second place league finish...

Trials and tribulations are relative and the manner in which they are dealt with comes down to the individuals who are called upon to lead the masses to a better place....
Kevin Higgins in hist first four years as HC went 22-21-1, after inheriting a Patriot League Championship team. Lembo inherited one of the greatest teams in Lehigh football history and guided them to three more playoff games and the legendary home playoff victory. Andy struggled mightily his first few seasons and very, very nearly got fired in the late 2000s. The point being that the last three head football coaches either 1) inherited a once-in-a-lifetime team or 2) struggled mightily for four years while building a winner - and realistically had five years to do so. I don't know what Tom's record will ultimately be here, but it seems quite unfair to hold him to a different standard than all of the head football coaches of the last twenty years. Do you think the dysfunctional 3-8 team that lost to Georgetown that Tom inherited was an all-time Lehigh team?

I'm also glad you brought up Dakosty, who went 5-6 last year and lost to (checks notes) Brown and Cornell. I'm not saying he did a bad job - beating Fordham at the end of the year was a good win, even if Fordham was playing for pride at that point - and he definitely deserves credit for exceeding expectations by a lot. But you're making it seem like he's the second coming of Fred Dunlap. He may be, but it's pretty quick to crown him that after one 5-6 season.

It's your prerogative to believe what you want about my writing, and I make no apologies for seeing positivity in the program, but I do think I am fair about it. I was livid about the 47-3 loss last year and I let people know how I felt about it publicly. When Lehigh was in the midst of the historic losing streak I didn't shy away from it. I am not all puppy dogs and ice cream. What I can unequivocally tell you is that that loss and this loss were night and day different. Last year's loss had me wondering if they would win any games last season. This year's loss showed a team (players and coaches) that can compete with one of the best teams in FCS, but needs to grow up quicker if they want a successful season and a title shot against Holy Cross. The game against Georgetown is a must-win and it won't be easy. But if they do they should be in a decent spot to get through the roughness of the rest of September.

More importantly - let's see what happens. Let's see who's right.
Higgins, Lembo and Coen were all first time head coaches. They all had to learn on the job which offers some amount of leeway given everyone does get a grace period (relative to the program) to get their footing. With that said, firing Troy Brown and hiring Dave Cecchini following the 2009 season in large part saved Coen's behind at Lehigh. Cecchini immediately came in, benched JB Clark (2x Lafayette game MVP iirc) turned to Lum which further established a new culture on offense and the rest is history. This is pure "connecting the dots" speculation but my guess is Strerrett would have turned the reins over to Dave had the team struggled to win games in 2010? Ironically, Cecchini's first game as LU's OC was a shutout loss to defending national champs and #1 ranked Villanova. With that said, the team also had a good (team still gave up points to better offenses) defensive coordinator in Kotulski. It was the combination of very solid defense and timely offense that led to the 10 win season in 2010 that included a 14-7 playoff victory over UNI.

Unfortunately, Brisson was not let go despite last year's historically inept offense. 2019 wasn't much better. Why was he retained?

Gilmore came to Lehigh with nearly 15 years of head coaching experience at a league peer. MORE IMPORTANTLY (and this cannot be overstated in terms of importance) he had the unique qualification or taking over a Holy Cross program who was rocked by the tragic passing of head coach Dan Allen following the 2003 season. Gilmore has been through the process of assuming the responsibility of institutional/program healing, re-establishing football specific stability, re-building a staff, reaching out to alums/fans/community etc. This is an extremely unique professional qualification that should have allowed for a much easier "rebuilding" process". I say with absolute conviction this was a significant factor in Gilmore's hiring. Yet, this is just another area where Gilmore has failed at Lehigh.

Colgate smacked around Lehigh last year, finished 4-2 in the league by winning the season finale over a 6-5 Fordham team. Not bad for a guy with no coaching experiencing who was given the job in April following the firing of Hunt? What experience, qualifications did he have to fall back on to guide him along? It was simple cognitive skill/leadership talent...

Lehigh appears to be an honest underdog to Georgetown. Is that acceptable?


LUFAN
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Re: Villanova

Post by LUFAN » Thu Sep 08, 2022 9:38 am

lfnadmin wrote: Wed Sep 07, 2022 1:56 am Villanova beat Lehigh last Friday and put up a very good showing. Having seen their top-recruited QB up close, along with basically every single skill player from last year, it won't be the last time this year Villanova does this to an opponent (trying to imagine what Villanova might do to Towson on November 5th - the highlights might be NC-17).

Anyone who equates last year's 47-3 shellacking and this game didn't actually watch the game. Last year's September offense was in complete disarray. But this team moved the ball extremely well on the No. 5 team in the country and the OL went toe to toe with them. The defense, too, had some good moments that were overshadowed. I'd say that the main issue with the team was sloppiness. Like I said in the recap, you can't expect to play sloppy against the No. 5 team in the country and win.

For those who are bashing Gilmore, Gilmore absolutely inherited a mess from the end of Andy's tenure. I loved Andy and I'd still run through a brick wall for him, but the program had developed real issues by his final year and it took a long time to fix those issues. The issues were hidden due to the 5-6 Patriot League title season (and to a lesser extent the playoff loss to UNH where they dropped 70 points on us), but they were clearly there - we just didn't bother to look too closely.

Right now I see Tom as being past the halfway point of a rebuild of the program from a large number of internal problems. Tom could have come here and played the happy bullshitter and an instant return to the glory days, but he did not. I think he realized that this was a multi year rebuilding effort, even if the fans here seem delusional about that fact. This August I saw the potential of a Lehigh program that seems ready to turn a corner after a tough rebuilding period; nothing about the sloppy loss to the No. 5 team in the country has me changing my mind at this point.

The trouble is road doesn't get a lot easier - Richmond's nationally-ranked, Princeton should be, and it's not like Monmouth, now a CAA school, will be any easier either. If Lehigh goes 3-2 with all of these schools and Georgetown, it will be the best Lehigh has done out-of-conference since at least 2011 (and even then, that's debatable: that year was Monmouth W, unranked UNH L (at home in OT on a BS call to boot), Princeton W, Liberty W, Yale W.) Even then I think this year's September is harder than that one - my memory is that Liberty was rebuilding, Princeton and Yale hadn't unleashed their financial aid to create superprograms, and Monmouth wasn't yet Monmouth.

Right now Lehigh is 3-1 in their last 4 games with their only loss coming to the No. 5 FCS team in the nation. Colgate is also 3-1 in their last 4 games with a loss to a Power 5 FBS school. Holy Cross is 3-1 in their last 4 games, also with a loss to Villanova. Both Lehigh and Colgate are imperfect teams right now with a lot of need for growth. Holy Cross as defending champs I think everyone would agree is ahead of them after 1 game. But Raider fans are mature about it and completely put the outcome of the game in perspective. Our fans? They come on here bashing the coaching staff and more unforgivably the kids for - what, exactly? Not losing as acceptably against the best team in the CAA?

Some perspective is in order. Dude, this is Yankee fan territory. We're better than this. It's one game.

I don't want to start heavily censoring the board or yanking people off of it. But if people are going to bash the kids individually or this place devolves into what Lafayette's board used to be I'm going to have to do it. I will not put up with it.
I happen to agree that there is no need to target specific kids. They are doing their best and have been through a lot over the last 12 games.

That said, Tom Gilmore is fair game. There are a lot of Lehigh supporters, both emotional and financial, that have every right to question this hire. TG has a lifetime losing record and a bit of research will uncover the truth behind his termination from Holy Cross. Furthermore, suggesting that TG wasn't playing happy bullshitter because his "stable" was empty is wrong. He painted a grim picture to buy himself time. Chesney took a mess and turned it around VERY QUICKLY. Tom is no Bob.

Nova game. Sorry Admin, down 24-0 after 18 minutes is a joke. Anyone who played the game, I suspect that you did not, recognizes that Nova was laughing and ass-smacking by that point in the game. Impossible to stay sharp up 24 that early against a 28-point underdog. Ferrante does his best to not embarrass his in-state doormat. This game could have been 63-7 and I watched every second of it.

I think Lehigh can actually blow out Gtown this weekend. They should truly be that superior to this team. But, that does not excuse the "SLOPPINESS" that continues to plague Lehigh.

Sloppy football is NOT the players, it is the staff. Too many alums just refuse to see the forest through the trees. Tom Gilmore is not the "long term" answer for Lehigh Football.
LUFAN
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Re: Villanova

Post by LUFAN » Thu Sep 08, 2022 9:51 am

lfnadmin wrote: Wed Sep 07, 2022 2:15 pm
Go Lehigh TU Owl wrote: Wed Sep 07, 2022 10:14 am
lfnadmin wrote: Wed Sep 07, 2022 1:56 am snip
I am personally not bashing Gilmore rather stating that based on observed evidence over the course of his head coaching career that he is a below average coach incapable of turning this ship around. I firmly stand my ground that he will never succeed at Lehigh at the level Higgins, Lembo and Coen did. Nor come close. Plus, I seriously question his demeanor/ability to control his emotions for the betterment of the team/program.

The Villanova game went almost exactly how I anticipated. Better, because you can't get worse than "historically" bad, but still nowhere close to good enough. Which is why I had it 44-17....

Chuck, I appreciate the time you put in covering Lehigh football but I challenge your predictions (generally extremely skewed) and overview of the state of Lehigh football based the fact I think your takes are significantly flawed due to bias and a predetermined agenda to shed as positive a light as possible on the Lehigh program given your time at CSJ. It's basically your civic responsibility to always take a glass-half full approach....

BTW, how about the mess Dakosty took over at Colgate with little to time to adapt as a head coach? Led them to a second place league finish...

Trials and tribulations are relative and the manner in which they are dealt with comes down to the individuals who are called upon to lead the masses to a better place....
Kevin Higgins in hist first four years as HC went 22-21-1, after inheriting a Patriot League Championship team. Lembo inherited one of the greatest teams in Lehigh football history and guided them to three more playoff games and the legendary home playoff victory. Andy struggled mightily his first few seasons and very, very nearly got fired in the late 2000s. The point being that the last three head football coaches either 1) inherited a once-in-a-lifetime team or 2) struggled mightily for four years while building a winner - and realistically had five years to do so. I don't know what Tom's record will ultimately be here, but it seems quite unfair to hold him to a different standard than all of the head football coaches of the last twenty years. Do you think the dysfunctional 3-8 team that lost to Georgetown that Tom inherited was an all-time Lehigh team?

I'm also glad you brought up Dakosty, who went 5-6 last year and lost to (checks notes) Brown and Cornell. I'm not saying he did a bad job - beating Fordham at the end of the year was a good win, even if Fordham was playing for pride at that point - and he definitely deserves credit for exceeding expectations by a lot. But you're making it seem like he's the second coming of Fred Dunlap. He may be, but it's pretty quick to crown him that after one 5-6 season.

It's your prerogative to believe what you want about my writing, and I make no apologies for seeing positivity in the program, but I do think I am fair about it. I was livid about the 47-3 loss last year and I let people know how I felt about it publicly. When Lehigh was in the midst of the historic losing streak I didn't shy away from it. I am not all puppy dogs and ice cream. What I can unequivocally tell you is that that loss and this loss were night and day different. Last year's loss had me wondering if they would win any games last season. This year's loss showed a team (players and coaches) that can compete with one of the best teams in FCS, but needs to grow up quicker if they want a successful season and a title shot against Holy Cross. The game against Georgetown is a must-win and it won't be easy. But if they do they should be in a decent spot to get through the roughness of the rest of September.

More importantly - let's see what happens. Let's see who's right.
Chuck, doesn't this team need a real win before we can even talk about turning the corner? How can you characterize 24-0 in Q2 as competitive? I am sorry, but this game was lopsided and could have been much worse. I do think the offense will show improvement this year, but what is the goal in year 4? Improvement or actually winning games against quality opponents. I guess we all have different perspectives.

Consider this: 15 pass attempts was the fewest for Villanova since their thrashing of Bucknell in week 2 of last year, which was also 15. 11 completions for 298 yards (27+ yds per completion) is embarrassing, not sloppy.

In fact, 15 pass attempts are the fewest for Nova since 2017. To insinuate this game was not a blowout is disingenuous.

I think everyone on this board would love to see Lehigh at 8-3. Giving honest opinions and assessments is not bashing and the threat of censoring is unnecessary. I find your writing to be extremely biased and your assessments and predictions to be highly inaccurate. I am happy to go back and highlight these past articles, but just making the point that folks should be able to take a counter position without fear of being censored.
Kramer
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Re: Villanova

Post by Kramer » Thu Sep 08, 2022 8:09 pm

Could it be that we lost to Nova because they have a better roster than us? Isn't that most important factor when it comes to wins and losses? Or are we angry and/or embarrassed by the way we lost?

Most of us aren't at all happy with coaching staff, etc, but I'm going to enjoy the season, get to a couple of games, and continue being a fan. Hopefully our next hire will be a better one. This is not life or death: it's just Patriot League football.
Sundayamqb
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Re: Villanova

Post by Sundayamqb » Thu Sep 08, 2022 8:20 pm

Kramer wrote: Thu Sep 08, 2022 8:09 pm I'm going to enjoy the season, get to a couple of games, and continue being a fan. Hopefully our next hire will be a better one. This is not life or death: it's just Patriot League football.
+1
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RichH
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Re: Villanova

Post by RichH » Thu Sep 08, 2022 8:27 pm

Kramer wrote: Thu Sep 08, 2022 8:09 pm Could it be that we lost to Nova because they have a better roster than us? Isn't that most important factor when it comes to wins and losses? Or are we angry and/or embarrassed by the way we lost?

Most of us aren't at all happy with coaching staff, etc, but I'm going to enjoy the season, get to a couple of games, and continue being a fan. Hopefully our next hire will be a better one. This is not life or death: it's just Patriot League football.
+1. Thanks Kramer.
LUFAN
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Re: Villanova

Post by LUFAN » Fri Sep 09, 2022 8:10 am

Kramer wrote: Thu Sep 08, 2022 8:09 pm Could it be that we lost to Nova because they have a better roster than us? Isn't that most important factor when it comes to wins and losses? Or are we angry and/or embarrassed by the way we lost?

Most of us aren't at all happy with coaching staff, etc, but I'm going to enjoy the season, get to a couple of games, and continue being a fan. Hopefully our next hire will be a better one. This is not life or death: it's just Patriot League football.
Very true. I suppose if I were an alum who wanted to have a few drinks with my friends, that would be great. As a local, I enjoyed watching a high-quality football program so this is quite disappointing. But, you are correct it is just PL football.

Isn’t is funny how fans of losing teams minimize winning. When Lehigh was winning was it also unimportant??
mookie
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Re: Villanova

Post by mookie » Fri Sep 09, 2022 8:29 am

When Lehigh was winning was it also unimportant??

Pretty much.
LUFAN
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Re: Villanova

Post by LUFAN » Fri Sep 09, 2022 9:49 am

mookie wrote: Fri Sep 09, 2022 8:29 am When Lehigh was winning was it also unimportant??

Pretty much.
To the Mookster...yes. To his board...no.
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