Lehigh Sports Forum

To NM,

To have the preexisting advantage over the other Ivies by virtue of the SUNY wrinkle, then to pile on by exploiting that accidental advantage to stockpile and play keep away.

whiz wit wrote: ↑Fri Apr 30, 2021 6:52 pm To NM,

To have the preexisting advantage over the other Ivies by virtue of the SUNY wrinkle, then to pile on by exploiting that accidental advantage to stockpile and play keep away.

You seem to think that Koll can get anyone admitted, and that just isn't so. Even if it is easier to get into the Ag College than it is to get into any of the other wrestling Ivy League schools, Koll isn't forcing anyone to matriculate at Cornell, right? If Cornell is the best school some of these kids can get into, why would they not accept? Why is it unseemly for Cornell/Koll to accept students who can get into Cornell but can't get into other Ivy schools? "Sorry, but we've accepted enough wrestlers, so you can't come to Cornell." Really? There's no "stockpiling" going on: this isn't like hoarding toilet paper (which has no say in who buys it). That's just BS.

NothingMeaningful wrote: ↑Sat May 01, 2021 7:55 am

whiz wit wrote: ↑Fri Apr 30, 2021 6:52 pm To NM,

To have the preexisting advantage over the other Ivies by virtue of the SUNY wrinkle, then to pile on by exploiting that accidental advantage to stockpile and play keep away.

You seem to think that Koll can get anyone admitted, and that just isn't so. Even if it is easier to get into the Ag College than it is to get into any of the other wrestling Ivy League schools, Koll isn't forcing anyone to matriculate at Cornell, right? If Cornell is the best school some of these kids can get into, why would they not accept? Why is it unseemly for Cornell/Koll to accept students who can get into Cornell but can't get into other Ivy schools? "Sorry, but we've accepted enough wrestlers, so you can't come to Cornell." Really? There's no "stockpiling" going on: this isn't like hoarding toilet paper (which has no say in who buys it). That's just BS.

The main point isn't SUNY. We've beaten that to death a thousand times. I think when Cornell has loads of really good wrestlers who will be sitting in the bleachers for all or almost all of their careers but who could be starters on teams not quite as good as Cornell, one has to wonder whether the purpose is to have depth or to keep kids from wrestling for Cornell's competitors. Maybe Oracle can provide more insight on this. He's the one who originally floated the proposition, which makes sense to me. I mentioned SUNY because it makes it easier to stockpile.

whiz wit wrote: ↑Sat May 01, 2021 8:14 am

NothingMeaningful wrote: ↑Sat May 01, 2021 7:55 am

whiz wit wrote: ↑Fri Apr 30, 2021 6:52 pm To NM,

To have the preexisting advantage over the other Ivies by virtue of the SUNY wrinkle, then to pile on by exploiting that accidental advantage to stockpile and play keep away.

You seem to think that Koll can get anyone admitted, and that just isn't so. Even if it is easier to get into the Ag College than it is to get into any of the other wrestling Ivy League schools, Koll isn't forcing anyone to matriculate at Cornell, right? If Cornell is the best school some of these kids can get into, why would they not accept? Why is it unseemly for Cornell/Koll to accept students who can get into Cornell but can't get into other Ivy schools? "Sorry, but we've accepted enough wrestlers, so you can't come to Cornell." Really? There's no "stockpiling" going on: this isn't like hoarding toilet paper (which has no say in who buys it). That's just BS.

The main point isn't SUNY. We've beaten that to death a thousand times. I think when Cornell has loads of really good wrestlers who will be sitting in the bleachers for all or almost all of their careers but who could be starters on teams not quite as good as Cornell, one has to wonder whether the purpose is to have depth or to keep kids from wrestling for Cornell's competitors. Maybe Oracle can provide more insight on this. He's the one who originally floated the proposition, which makes sense to me. I mentioned SUNY because it makes it easier to stockpile.

You brought up the dead horse that is the Ag school, not me. And you can "wonder" all you want: the fact is that nothing is forcing these kids to accept at Cornell. They have agency, and choose Cornell with open eyes. Very, very few Cornell wrestlers have transferred over the years, so it's not like they were deceived about the situation and felt they had a better opportunity elsewhere. To get accepted at Cornell means they are each pretty bright, and nearly all of them have career expectations beyond wrestling. Those expectations are met quite well with a Cornell diploma. I'm sure that everyone on the Cornell roster is beyond grateful to Koll and Cornell for the opportunities afforded them.

The idea that Koll is "unseemly" and is somehow stockpiling wrestlers is a load of crap and for which you have no basis in fact.

State funding has made Cornell a joke.

NM,

.... and what "basis in fact" would you expect? A secret tape of Koll saying to Grey, "You know, Mike, we're really lucky to have the SUNY colleges so that we can admit more top wrestlers, stockpile them, and play keep away from our competition."

whiz wit wrote: ↑Sat May 01, 2021 10:01 am NM,

.... and what "basis in fact" would you expect? A secret tape of Koll saying to Grey, "You know, Mike, we're really lucky to have the SUNY colleges so that we can admit more top wrestlers, stockpile them, and play keep away from our competition."

You made the claim, you provide the evidence. That's how it works. "Extraordinary claims require extraordinary evidence." You've provided none, so you slam of "unseemly" behavior by Rob Koll is based on nothing more than speculation.

Now that is unseemly.

NothingMeaningful wrote: ↑Sat May 01, 2021 10:38 am

whiz wit wrote: ↑Sat May 01, 2021 10:01 am NM,

.... and what "basis in fact" would you expect? A secret tape of Koll saying to Grey, "You know, Mike, we're really lucky to have the SUNY colleges so that we can admit more top wrestlers, stockpile them, and play keep away from our competition."

You made the claim, you provide the evidence. That's how it works. "Extraordinary claims require extraordinary evidence." You've provided none, so you slam of "unseemly" behavior by Rob Koll is based on nothing more than speculation.

Now that is unseemly.

Reasonable inference. And the claim isn't "extraordinary", as that term was meant to define one contradicted by the massive weight of evidence.

I've said everything already.....nothing illegal or unethical.
Did coach Koll exploit loopholes for his advantage? Absolutely.
Would other Ivy coaches do the same thing if they could? Absolutely.
Anything "unseemly?" IMO, absolutely not.

Oracle wrote: ↑Sat May 01, 2021 12:36 pm I've said everything already.....nothing illegal or unethical.
Did coach Koll exploit loopholes for his advantage? Absolutely.
Would other Ivy coaches do the same thing if they could? Absolutely.
Anything "unseemly?" IMO, absolutely not.

But you apparently agree that Koll stockpiles and plays keep away - at least that's what you wrote above. NM denies that that's the case.