The Olympics

Talk about the champions, or the Top 25 nationally-ranked team!
whiz wit
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Re: The Olympics

Post by whiz wit » Thu Aug 12, 2021 7:08 pm

DRD makes much of the fact that freestyle is popular and wrestled around the world and folk style is the outlier. Greco is also popular and wrestled around the world. Need I say more?


TMH
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Re: The Olympics

Post by TMH » Thu Aug 12, 2021 8:45 pm

By the rest of the world are we referring to the section of Asia with Iran/Turkey to the South and Russia to the North and perhaps Japan now. Is wrestling even much of a thing anywhere else?

Serious question.
Richb-3
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Re: The Olympics

Post by Richb-3 » Fri Aug 13, 2021 7:22 am

As I read this thread, it appears that only three styles of wrestling exist in the world. Freestyle, Greco-Roman, (American) Folkstyle. Does anyone else remember Don Sayenga. He described dozens of styles. Turkish, Persian, Mongolian, About a half dozen styles in India, A similar number in China. Korean styles, Who knows how many styles in the Former Soviet Union, African Styles, Even a half dozen in the British Isles.

FreeStyle and Greco-Roman are merely the Lingua Franca of our sport.
gimpeltf
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Re: The Olympics

Post by gimpeltf » Fri Aug 13, 2021 8:20 am

And folkstyle just means the style the local folk use.
At least in our language, all those RichB mentioned are folkstyles.
The biggest single weight classes are likely the Mongolian Naadams with as many as 1024 in a single class. (Because there's only one weight class) All wearing traditional garb.
Here's one of the Mongolians that came to St Benedicts/Citadel (Turtotogh Luvsandorj) in both uniforms
Image
Image
Asa Packer
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Re: The Olympics

Post by Asa Packer » Fri Aug 13, 2021 12:56 pm

I gave up on freestyle few years ago. Was going to give a chance, again. Never got around to any of the Olympic matches/bouts. Time difference was my biggest issue. But just watched Gable Steveson's final. Wow. WOW!

Its probably like judging folkstyle based on Rob Rohn's final, but will give freestyle another chance.

I agree with Denny's comment from a few days ago about relative value of takedown vs escape. I take you down 3 times and might only be leading 6-4, pending choice in 2nd period. Seems odd, to me at least.
drd5748
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Re: The Olympics

Post by drd5748 » Fri Aug 13, 2021 3:44 pm

The wizard offers, without any wit:

>>>DRD, so you're saying there's so little merit in escaping from a guy in control of you that it's not even worth half of the value of a takedown?

... that's correct - and who says evidentiary basis for my conclusion? If you insist, the late Greg Strobel, who spent years on NCAA Rules Committee work -- agreed with me fully on this (he helped convince me). In today's freestyle-influenced folkstyle wrestling. The top guy cuts him most of the time, very often zero effort for bottom guy.

>>>>Why does it piss you off that one gets half the credit for an escape than for a takedown?

... It only pisses me off that I have to explain it twice. Halfway through a bout I lead you 3-0 in TDs -- and you worked hard to earn maybe 1 of the 4 escapes -- and I'm only ahead 6-4 ???
whiz wit
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Re: The Olympics

Post by whiz wit » Fri Aug 13, 2021 3:55 pm

drd5748 wrote: Fri Aug 13, 2021 3:44 pm The wizard offers, without any wit:

>>>DRD, so you're saying there's so little merit in escaping from a guy in control of you that it's not even worth half of the value of a takedown?

... that's correct - and who says evidentiary basis for my conclusion? If you insist, the late Greg Strobel, who spent years on NCAA Rules Committee work -- agreed with me fully on this (he helped convince me). In today's freestyle-influenced folkstyle wrestling. The top guy cuts him most of the time, very often zero effort for bottom guy.

>>>>Why does it piss you off that one gets half the credit for an escape than for a takedown?

... It only pisses me off that I have to explain it twice. Halfway through a bout I lead you 3-0 in TDs -- and you worked hard to earn maybe 1 of the 4 escapes -- and I'm only ahead 6-4 ???
drd5748 wrote: Fri Aug 13, 2021 3:44 pm The wizard offers, without any wit:

>>>DRD, so you're saying there's so little merit in escaping from a guy in control of you that it's not even worth half of the value of a takedown?

... that's correct - and who says evidentiary basis for my conclusion? If you insist, the late Greg Strobel, who spent years on NCAA Rules Committee work -- agreed with me fully on this (he helped convince me). In today's freestyle-influenced folkstyle wrestling. The top guy cuts him most of the time, very often zero effort for bottom guy.

>>>>Why does it piss you off that one gets half the credit for an escape than for a takedown?

... It only pisses me off that I have to explain it twice. Halfway through a bout I lead you 3-0 in TDs -- and you worked hard to earn maybe 1 of the 4 escapes -- and I'm only ahead 6-4 ???
Well, if the top guy cuts him it's his choice, isn't it? He's doing it either because he can't ride - in which case he's not the victim - or because he thinks he can do better by cutting him than by riding him - in which case he's not the victim. So why are you treating him as if he's the victim?
JAD77
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Re: The Olympics

Post by JAD77 » Fri Aug 13, 2021 7:16 pm

Whiz-wit - I think most people would agree that the 2-1 ratio of a takedown to an escape is wrong. You have your opinion, and Denny has his (which I agree with) - can't we leave it at that?

Maybe make the first takedown worth 3 points, and the rest 2 points? Will make both wrestlers more aggressive right away. Or maybe all takedowns in the first period are worth 3 points, and those in the second and third worth 2 points?

Anything to put more emphasis on aggressive scoring.
whiz wit
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Re: The Olympics

Post by whiz wit » Fri Aug 13, 2021 7:59 pm

JAD77 wrote: Fri Aug 13, 2021 7:16 pm Whiz-wit - I think most people would agree that the 2-1 ratio of a takedown to an escape is wrong. You have your opinion, and Denny has his (which I agree with) - can't we leave it at that?

Maybe make the first takedown worth 3 points, and the rest 2 points? Will make both wrestlers more aggressive right away. Or maybe all takedowns in the first period are worth 3 points, and those in the second and third worth 2 points?

Anything to put more emphasis on aggressive scoring.
If most people agree that the 2-1 ratio is wrong, why's that been the rule for decades? But I see potential merit in your ideas. The trouble with change, though, is that it's very hard to predict how things will actually play out. You know - that damn law of unintended consequences.
gimpeltf
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Re: The Olympics

Post by gimpeltf » Fri Aug 13, 2021 8:30 pm

JAD77 wrote: Fri Aug 13, 2021 7:16 pm Maybe make the first takedown worth 3 points, and the rest 2 points? Will make both wrestlers more aggressive right away. Or maybe all takedowns in the first period are worth 3 points, and those in the second and third worth 2 points?
They did the opposite of that for a short time in the 60s. 2 for the first. 1 after that. I believe it was considered an anti- Ok State rule
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