The Olympics
Re: The Olympics
Everyone should be forced to re-read Gimp's last post and repeat it 3x a day until it's fully understood. Don't have to agree, just understand it, as simply stated.
We are the world's only country (1 other?) out of 200 which created folkstyle. At the beginning, college rules had no scoring. None. You won FIFTEEN minute bouts by fall -- or by referee's decision. It time, the brilliant idea was that riding time = the ref's decisiion unless he felt you were "technically superior"
About 30 yrs later, they finally created bout scoring. Riding remained a big factor; by the late '50s's they decided 2 min or more = 2 pts but then realized a bad idea. They tried making all TDs after the 1st just one pt -- because Okla St dominated too much on their feel. Then realized OSU was still gonna dominate and 1 pt was a stupid idea.
It still ticks me off that a folkstyler can lead 2-0 in TDs but lead just 4-3 in the 2nd pd; or lead 6-4 after 3 TDs. If his opponent gets a stepout + r.time, he goes s.v. still down 3-0 in TDs. Imagine mookie's post-meet commentary.
The above can't happen in freestyle. Nor could Dake ride Molinaro for EIGHT min; 2 future Olympians.
I don't understand control as crucial - if you allow yourself to get put on your back, you lose 2 pts -- and can get them back the same way. Vs Penn State, 2x Univ Nat 1st Mike Galante threw his man twice, in grand amplitude ... most beautiful high arcing throws of the last 20 years. He got zero vs. 10 pts in freestyle, both slightly landing out-of-bounds. Lost the bout. That genuinely sucked.
We are the world's only country (1 other?) out of 200 which created folkstyle. At the beginning, college rules had no scoring. None. You won FIFTEEN minute bouts by fall -- or by referee's decision. It time, the brilliant idea was that riding time = the ref's decisiion unless he felt you were "technically superior"
About 30 yrs later, they finally created bout scoring. Riding remained a big factor; by the late '50s's they decided 2 min or more = 2 pts but then realized a bad idea. They tried making all TDs after the 1st just one pt -- because Okla St dominated too much on their feel. Then realized OSU was still gonna dominate and 1 pt was a stupid idea.
It still ticks me off that a folkstyler can lead 2-0 in TDs but lead just 4-3 in the 2nd pd; or lead 6-4 after 3 TDs. If his opponent gets a stepout + r.time, he goes s.v. still down 3-0 in TDs. Imagine mookie's post-meet commentary.
The above can't happen in freestyle. Nor could Dake ride Molinaro for EIGHT min; 2 future Olympians.
I don't understand control as crucial - if you allow yourself to get put on your back, you lose 2 pts -- and can get them back the same way. Vs Penn State, 2x Univ Nat 1st Mike Galante threw his man twice, in grand amplitude ... most beautiful high arcing throws of the last 20 years. He got zero vs. 10 pts in freestyle, both slightly landing out-of-bounds. Lost the bout. That genuinely sucked.
Re: The Olympics
DRD, so you're saying there's so little merit in escaping from a guy in control of you that it's not even worth half of the value of a takedown?
What's your evidentiary basis for that conclusion? That it takes skill on a far superior level to get a takedown than to escape? That it takes effort/willpower on a far superior level? That it takes conditioning on a far superior level? Why does it piss you off that one gets half the credit for an escape than for a takedown?
What's your evidentiary basis for that conclusion? That it takes skill on a far superior level to get a takedown than to escape? That it takes effort/willpower on a far superior level? That it takes conditioning on a far superior level? Why does it piss you off that one gets half the credit for an escape than for a takedown?
Re: The Olympics
Seems to be a clear consensus that step outs would be a good thing for folkstyle. I'd also like to see putting wrestlers back on their feet after 30 seconds of no mat action as well as passivity warnings and a 30 second scoring clock.
Re: The Olympics
I like it except for the passivity warnings and clock bit . Seemed like it was pretty arbitrary as to who got put on the clock first and when. Could be mistaken, but were some wrestlers ok with being put on the clock early on - figuring that their opponent would feel the clock heat later in the bout such that they'd get the tiebreaker?
Re: The Olympics
Again siding with mookie ! whiz cheese somehow agrees with letting Dake ride 8 min with BARELY any thoughts for turning Molinaro.
Still not agreeing with mookie over poor Kyle Snider making all those shots for 1 TD
Sadulaev now has six World/Olympic Golds + 1 second.
In his two Olympics he's outscored opponents, 53-4.
Credit Snyder with 3 of 'em
Still not agreeing with mookie over poor Kyle Snider making all those shots for 1 TD
Sadulaev now has six World/Olympic Golds + 1 second.
In his two Olympics he's outscored opponents, 53-4.
Credit Snyder with 3 of 'em
Re: The Olympics
Where did you see that from me? I didn't address Mookie's idea of blowing the whistle to end uneventful mat time. What I did address was the business of passivity calls and wrestlers' being put on the clock when they're in neutral. Did it ever occur to you to read postings carefully and to think for a couple of minutes before responding?drd5748 wrote: ↑Mon Aug 09, 2021 6:50 pm Again siding with mookie ! whiz cheese somehow agrees with letting Dake ride 8 min with BARELY any thoughts for turning Molinaro.
Still not agreeing with mookie over poor Kyle Snider making all those shots for 1 TD
Sadulaev now has six World/Olympic Golds + 1 second.
In his two Olympics he's outscored opponents, 53-4.
Credit Snyder with 3 of 'em
Re: The Olympics
**** Yeah call me old school, I don't care. I was raised on Folkstyle and I agree with JDA, I cannot watch Freestyle for long and cannot watch greco at all. Stop trying to change something at is NOT Broken.
Re: The Olympics
FS rules I'd like to see in Folk:
1. Challenging a call. You get one challenge, but you get dinged a point of you're wrong. End the frivolous challenges.
2. Pushout rule. NCAA changed OOB rules to create scoring, Pushout does it better. Only caveat I have would be to only have pushout from neutral (grounding does this in FS). When mat wrestling (wrestler has established control), I'd use the current NCAA OOB rules - imaginary cylinder.
3. I like the idea of Passivity warning (stalling) and 30 second scoring clock.
Disagree with bringing back to neutral 30s after a TD, if no turns.
Re: The Olympics
I'm not sure standing up top wrestler after 30 seconds helps folk style. Lots of exciting stuff can occur from mat positions. Cradles happen often and are are exciting. Same with Nelsons. Just thinking about it I don't remember many guys running out the clock on top. They either can't do it, or they can pin their guy or they let him up to get another TD. And Denny are you going to base your degradation of "control" on one match between Dake and Moliari five years or so? Doesn't seem statistically significant to me and it couldn't have too tough to watch because most people still remember it
I liked watching the Olympics a tremendous amount, but that was because of the amazing wrestlers, not the rules of FreeStyle which has some major problems IMO.
FreeStyle has become very defensive from the standing position endless hand fighting etc. and standing up guys from the mat after five seconds of being down so exacerbates the situatition.
FreeStyle is all about turns and throws which often are incredibly exciting, but often it's hard to know who got the points, and the points are sometimes enough to end a match. Doesn't make sense to me.
Worse are the Laces and Gut Wrenches. If you're good you likely can roll the guy over like a hotdog and match is over. What’s interesting about that? Doesn't excite me.
Denny, I know you are going to sentence me to six Gimps daily. That's OK, he's probably right but I'm still pretty happy with FolkStyle and maybe a few tweeks.
I liked watching the Olympics a tremendous amount, but that was because of the amazing wrestlers, not the rules of FreeStyle which has some major problems IMO.
FreeStyle has become very defensive from the standing position endless hand fighting etc. and standing up guys from the mat after five seconds of being down so exacerbates the situatition.
FreeStyle is all about turns and throws which often are incredibly exciting, but often it's hard to know who got the points, and the points are sometimes enough to end a match. Doesn't make sense to me.
Worse are the Laces and Gut Wrenches. If you're good you likely can roll the guy over like a hotdog and match is over. What’s interesting about that? Doesn't excite me.
Denny, I know you are going to sentence me to six Gimps daily. That's OK, he's probably right but I'm still pretty happy with FolkStyle and maybe a few tweeks.
Re: The Olympics
They're different sports (FS vs Folk) albeit relatively similar. I wasn't rooting for one over the other. Just giving reasons people in America think as they do. We generally prefer football to futbol.
If you watched a lot of NCAA finals and not earlier bouts or in season duals, you might be bored also. The best tend to negate the best. When you watch freestyle, you aren't usually going to the local qualifiers you are watching the high level matches. The international wrestlers especially those from the greater Caucasus area are extremely well trained and don't make many mistakes.
If you watched a lot of NCAA finals and not earlier bouts or in season duals, you might be bored also. The best tend to negate the best. When you watch freestyle, you aren't usually going to the local qualifiers you are watching the high level matches. The international wrestlers especially those from the greater Caucasus area are extremely well trained and don't make many mistakes.
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