The Olympics

Talk about the champions, or the Top 25 nationally-ranked team!
TMH
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Re: The Olympics

Post by TMH » Fri Aug 13, 2021 9:15 pm

Being the contrarian that I am, I'm going to disagree with Denny this time and yes it's only my opinion.

The 6-4 example doesn't resonate with me as it does for some. There are three distinct facets to folkstyle wrestling, on your feet , down on the mat and up on the mat. In the example shown, the wrestler leading has only shown proficiency in one area. He is good on his feet. If he were proficient at all on top, he would have riding time, then it's 7-4. At least 1 rideout and it's 8-4. If he had any skill on the bottom, he would also have an escape and it's 9-4.
That guy's weakness is not the scoring system, it's that he sucks at 2 of the 3 elements of wrestling and is still winning.


TMH
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Re: The Olympics

Post by TMH » Fri Aug 13, 2021 9:39 pm

What I consider a bigger inequity is the cheap tilt. Even if the wrestler in my earlier example did everything right, just about all of it could be wiped out with one 4 point cheap tilt with no hope whatsoever of being able to pin. In my perfect world there should be a back point differentiation between a tilt and a pinning combination.

Just a thought.
jdalu75
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Re: The Olympics

Post by jdalu75 » Sat Aug 14, 2021 7:42 am

TMH wrote: Fri Aug 13, 2021 9:39 pm What I consider a bigger inequity is the cheap tilt.
Which is my biggest complaint about freestyle. I saw one bout, either in the trials or at the Olympics, where a guy had hold of his opponent's ankles and spun him four times. Eight points from a single (barely) hold. If you didn't like Lambrecht piling up a lead against Rohn with three near falls off essentially the same move, you should hate freestyle.

I like near falls. I don't like back points. There's a big difference.
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gimpeltf
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Re: The Olympics

Post by gimpeltf » Sat Aug 14, 2021 8:42 am

Not sure how you go from not liking a rule to hating something that simply includes a similar rule. You should also hate folkstyle.
My contention though about the Rohn thing is that Lambrecht shouldn't have gotten all those points. I had a fun argument with Spates about it. However, had all of those points not been awarded- do you think Rohn would have had the same impetus to do what he did?

It's just a current interpretation. I officiated the Soviet dual at Stabler in 83. I don't remember too many Americans complaining when I called I think 4 separate consecutive tilts for Mills. Of course, Yarygin blocked the sun for several minutes arguing. The other American officials agreed with me. A week or so later at the world cup, FILA stated it should have been 2 sets of points instead. A few years later they went back to unlimited.
I would like some limitations too but you have to understand something, when this is the style you do, you deal with it. It's basically another type of Ippon in this sport. If you make that big of a technical mistake on the mat, you lose. You don't leave your feet together with your butt down. You don't try to brace against a gut wrench with your elbow bent down on the mat. I remember when Dake wrestled world champ ARSEN JULFALAKYAN in Greco at the Grapple at the Garden a few years back. I'm still not convinced that JULFALAKYAN didn't gift Dake that gut in the first period. He rather calmly put his elbow down. I don't believe a World class greco wrestler like that would allow that to happen.
jdalu75
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Re: The Olympics

Post by jdalu75 » Sat Aug 14, 2021 10:44 am

I don't have any argument with anything you wrote, Gimp. It doesn't mean I have to like it. I don't watch HSN or HGTV, either. There're seven million wallpaper patterns, one of which I like. I don't have to buy all the others.
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gimpeltf
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Re: The Olympics

Post by gimpeltf » Sat Aug 14, 2021 11:05 am

jdalu75 wrote: Sat Aug 14, 2021 10:44 am I don't have any argument with anything you wrote, Gimp. It doesn't mean I have to like it. I don't watch HSN or HGTV, either. There're seven million wallpaper patterns, one of which I like. I don't have to buy all the others.
This isn't what you said in the post I responded to.

This is-
If you didn't like Lambrecht piling up a lead against Rohn with three near falls off essentially the same move, you should hate freestyle.
whiz wit
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Re: The Olympics

Post by whiz wit » Sat Aug 14, 2021 11:18 am

I saw that Dake bout in the Garden. And I remember his opponent smiling when Dake scored on him.
gimpeltf
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Re: The Olympics

Post by gimpeltf » Sat Aug 14, 2021 12:06 pm

whiz wit wrote: Sat Aug 14, 2021 11:18 am I saw that Dake bout in the Garden. And I remember his opponent smiling when Dake scored on him.
Didn't notice that.
drd5748
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Re: The Olympics

Post by drd5748 » Sat Aug 14, 2021 10:24 pm

>>> And Denny are you going to base your degradation of "control" on one match between Dake and Moliari five years or so? Doesn't seem statistically significant to me and it couldn't have too tough to watch because most people still remember it

For goodness sake, it was the most graphic example of folkstyle riding absurdity - not the sole example

For years, the guy on top was warned for stalling if he got too passive. Today, the enforcement of that is almost non-existent, with seemingly 90% of stall calls on bottom. I've learned to stop wasting my breath calling: "HE'S GOTTA' WORK ON TOP, TOO !" Fact is, with rare exception he doesn't have to.

And yet the guy on top has 90% of the control - the ability to move and DO something. Pls explain why he's now virtually immune from stall calls? But go ahead, admire his dominance while doing little to nothing
drd5748
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Re: The Olympics

Post by drd5748 » Sat Aug 14, 2021 10:27 pm

>>>DRD makes much of the fact that freestyle is popular and wrestled around the world and folk style is the outlier. Greco is also popular and wrestled around the world. Need I say more?

.... Or less. The rest of the world isn't listening. The only way we make a dent internationally is freestyle. Dan Gable just admitted we're really bad at Greco; doesn't know why we can't do better.
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