The bile in the gorge
Re: The bile in the gorge
That loss to Campbell was the season opener and is ancient history. Rankings should, and I believe do in most areas, reflect current strength.
Re: The bile in the gorge
For tournament rankings I agree 100%, but for dual rankings - why not?? There is a reason duals are wrestled. They have consequences. If Glory beat Suriano, shouldn’t he be ranked ahead of him? Or should we just say it was a fluke, Suriano is actually better.Spladle1989 wrote: ↑Wed Jan 12, 2022 9:49 pm dropping Cornell like that below Lehigh makes zero sense
The ranking I really have a problem with, and now I can’t find it again - thought it was the coaches poll?? - is Humphreys at 15 at 157 lbs. Absurd.
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Re: The bile in the gorge
So your saying if #1 dual team Penn State gets upset by say #22 North Carolina in a week then NC should move ahead of PSU? (No, they are not actually wrestling).....
Even though it is PSU's first loss and NC has lost to Nebraska, Ohio State, Rutgers and Wisconsin? Sure that's an extreme but it emphasizes the point......One win/loss is not the end all be all in ranking one team over another, as a fan sure we want it, but not realistic......
Even though it is PSU's first loss and NC has lost to Nebraska, Ohio State, Rutgers and Wisconsin? Sure that's an extreme but it emphasizes the point......One win/loss is not the end all be all in ranking one team over another, as a fan sure we want it, but not realistic......
Re: The bile in the gorge
>>>>>>>>> I agree. It'll all come out in the wash soon enough.Spladle1989 wrote: ↑Thu Jan 13, 2022 7:58 amSo your nose is out of joint because one, possibly 2 teams are ranked ahead of us you feel unjustly? (say Purdue and Rutgers)..... So if we were say 15 or 16 instead of 17 it would be fair? Also teams typically fall much faster than they rise especially when they lose to a team around 10 spots behind them.......jdalu75 wrote: ↑Wed Jan 12, 2022 10:18 pmThe NWCA is voted on by coaches. The same guys who vote for the individual coaches' panel rankings that help determined qualification for NCAAs and seeding. Flo doesn't matter, in the end.
The NWCA moved Purdue from #15 to #12 because they squeaked by #9 Nebraska (now 15th). #17 Lehigh beats #8 Cornell and doesn't budge, but Cornell drops to 13th? Purdue has wrestled three ranked teams: W 18-15 over #9 Nebraska, L 23-13 #13 Iowa State, L 36-4 to #1 Iowa. None of their other opponents (all wins) scored a single point in the current rankings.
Lehigh lost to Campbell (by votes, #31; currently #25); beat Oregon State (by votes, #26); topped #15 Pitt; lost to #2 Penn State 23-16; beat #26 (by points) Central Michigan 25-6; lost to #1 Iowa 28-7; lost to #10 Missouri 26-9; and just topped #8 Cornell 18-15. But Purdue is spelled B-I-G-T-E-N. There's your reason why they moved up and Lehigh didn't.
Hey I'm a Lehigh fan obviously, I just don't see the big injustice..
Re: The bile in the gorge
>>>So your nose is out of joint because one, possibly 2 teams are ranked ahead of us you feel unjustly? (say Purdue and Rutgers)..... So if we were say 15 or 16 instead of 17 it would be fair? Also teams typically fall much faster than they rise especially when they lose to a team around 10 spots behind them
My nose sez I can't recall any team EVER beating a Top 10 from that many spots down -- and not moving up at all
So Purdue vaults on its only key win and we don't budge?
1 or 2 spots is a helluva lot better than the insult we just took.
FYI, each league gets 2 voters ... what if our 2 voters are, say, Cornell & anyone but us?
The NWCA would be wise if they rotated the duo annually to avoid what goes on: a buddy system within leagues and some in between. I'm not at liberty to comment on that any further, but think about it: "Good ol' Coach E at PU has never had a Top 10 WIN in 18 yrs until now; that Pat Santoro has had a pile of Top 10 TEAMS, he doesn't need any breaks."
My nose sez I can't recall any team EVER beating a Top 10 from that many spots down -- and not moving up at all
So Purdue vaults on its only key win and we don't budge?
1 or 2 spots is a helluva lot better than the insult we just took.
FYI, each league gets 2 voters ... what if our 2 voters are, say, Cornell & anyone but us?
The NWCA would be wise if they rotated the duo annually to avoid what goes on: a buddy system within leagues and some in between. I'm not at liberty to comment on that any further, but think about it: "Good ol' Coach E at PU has never had a Top 10 WIN in 18 yrs until now; that Pat Santoro has had a pile of Top 10 TEAMS, he doesn't need any breaks."
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Re: The bile in the gorge
sorry....but no to all of that.....but I respect your agenda/opinion and time commitment to type that.......
Re: The bile in the gorge
Spladdle doesn't have to buy any of it, but DRD is right to ask why Purdue gets such preferential treatment over us.
Who the heck is Purdue? Oh, I forgot, a B1G team.
IMO, the big issue for the rankers was *how* Lehigh scored the upset. Two unranked guys with losing records take out #10 and #13. They must have thought it was just too unlikely. Nevermind both Logan and Burkhart wrestled like ranked guys and never backed down. These may have been upsets but not fluky wins. Not if the rankers actually watched the bouts. Lehigh has faced #1, #2, #8, #13 and is 1-3 against them. Campbell has to be viewed as an outlier -- first dual of the year after traveling 3,000 miles. But like I said, it will all figure itself out soon enough.
Who the heck is Purdue? Oh, I forgot, a B1G team.
IMO, the big issue for the rankers was *how* Lehigh scored the upset. Two unranked guys with losing records take out #10 and #13. They must have thought it was just too unlikely. Nevermind both Logan and Burkhart wrestled like ranked guys and never backed down. These may have been upsets but not fluky wins. Not if the rankers actually watched the bouts. Lehigh has faced #1, #2, #8, #13 and is 1-3 against them. Campbell has to be viewed as an outlier -- first dual of the year after traveling 3,000 miles. But like I said, it will all figure itself out soon enough.
Re: The bile in the gorge
Thx, O ... for finding something you agree with; always reassuring when fans find any consensus
To bolster your slant on surprise bout wins:
174: #21 Nijenhuis (P) dec #3 Labriola (NU) 6-4
184: #23 Lyon (P) dec #10 Venz (NU) 7-2
The first upsets ranks only slightly lower on the food chain of upsets as Meyer over Wentzel..
Just to repeat O's earlier pt which LUWN cited in print: Purdue's 2nd-toughest dual was vs, well, it's tough to decide - was it Duke ... or N.Illinois ... or Drexel? Tough, because none of the 3 has earned a single vote all season
By contrast, our 2nd-toughest W was #15 Pitt (now #19);
3rd-toughest was Oreg St, several times among 30 most pts (31st now);
4th-toughest CMU.
All 4 have earned weekly pts for the last 2 months
To bolster your slant on surprise bout wins:
174: #21 Nijenhuis (P) dec #3 Labriola (NU) 6-4
184: #23 Lyon (P) dec #10 Venz (NU) 7-2
The first upsets ranks only slightly lower on the food chain of upsets as Meyer over Wentzel..
Just to repeat O's earlier pt which LUWN cited in print: Purdue's 2nd-toughest dual was vs, well, it's tough to decide - was it Duke ... or N.Illinois ... or Drexel? Tough, because none of the 3 has earned a single vote all season
By contrast, our 2nd-toughest W was #15 Pitt (now #19);
3rd-toughest was Oreg St, several times among 30 most pts (31st now);
4th-toughest CMU.
All 4 have earned weekly pts for the last 2 months
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Re: The bile in the gorge
Still a definite no on the oh my we’ve been so mistreated indignation…. But I respect your opinion….and the concerted effort you put in to selling it…..
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