SCHEDULE

Talk about the champions, or the Top 25 nationally-ranked team!
whiz wit
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Re: SCHEDULE

Post by whiz wit » Sat Sep 24, 2022 1:21 am

DRD, thank you for bolstering my argument by not attempting to rebut any of its 3 underlying rationales, by having to resort to inventing statistics that you can't possibly know (i.e. the redshirt policies and practices of 78 D1 college wrestling teams as well as who on their rosters is better than who), and by focusing entirely on wrestler development and ignoring the matter of the present success of the team. I appreciate it.

And by the way, you also didn't answer my question about medalling.


HFO
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Re: SCHEDULE

Post by HFO » Sat Sep 24, 2022 7:49 am

drd5748 wrote: Fri Sep 23, 2022 10:20 pm whiz wit: DRD wrote in part,
"The coaches only tend to suit up fr/fr when they believe they have a shot at medaling, so be sure to work your logic around the 133 lb gorilla in the room."

whiz's wizard humor: >>Medal where? NCAAs? EIWAs? Cheesteak Open?
In any event, I strongly disagree with that policy. Many years ago I posited that the best kid at a weight should wrestle - even a true frosh. I got a contrary view from one board regular who thought that being "slightly better" is insufficient. My rejoinder was ...

.... largely irrelevant since coaches are the equivalent of PhD's in wrestling vs. your HS background in the sport, at best. Probably 80% of coaches r/s their freshmen approx 80% of the time in Yr 1, a kind of "80/80" rule vs 80/20. The simple logic is not using up Yr 1 learning how to get better. If that logic somehow evaporates, I'm sure coaches will be happy to take your calls. :D
I know some Ph.D. that aren't worth the paper their dissertations were written on and for that matter some NCAA college coaches. A spurious persuasive post at best. No foundation in valid statistics. No foundation in philosophy of logic. I give you a big fat :D!
legger
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Re: SCHEDULE

Post by legger » Sat Sep 24, 2022 10:12 am

**** Phds I have known have "mostly" been arrogant know it alls, who think they should command respect purely because of the letters after their names. Yes, they are book smart but many couldn't find their way out of a wet paper bag. By Now most of you know the definition of Higher Education: learning more and more about less and less, until you know everything there is to know about nothing. The father of my best friend (one of the smartest men I ever met), once told me: "Life is like a game of poker. You are each dealt a hand. Some hands are more powerful than others. That does not mean the most powerful initial hand will win. It all depends on how you play your cards".
drd5748
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Re: SCHEDULE

Post by drd5748 » Sat Sep 24, 2022 6:31 pm

wizard witless >>>DRD, thank you for bolstering my argument by not attempting to rebut any of its 3 underlying rationales, by having to resort to inventing statistics that you can't possibly know (i.e. the redshirt policies and practices of 78 D1 college wrestling teams as well as who on their rosters is better than who), and by focusing entirely on wrestler development and ignoring the matter of the present success of the team. I appreciate it.
And by the way, you also didn't answer my question about medalling.

... Bolster it?! roflmao ....got news for you, whiz: except for 1988-1994, I've been a nationally respected statistician & historian since '75; not bragging but a fact, to try (likely futilely) to convince you to better understand who you're debating. I have so many stats since founding Nat Mat News in 1975 covering the top 50 programs it's hard to recall how many files. "Can't possibly know?" Don't bet too many Greekers against me; it's not a very complicated estimate.

... Until you find us on this board a more accurate pct of Top 50 teams routinely redshirting fr/fr, I stand by my #s - they were not intended to be 100% accurate but represent historical Div I reality, vs your personal opinion. ...
I don't have to rebut your 3 points made because Div I policy - not my opinion - makes your points irrelevant to the industry (Ivies & the academies have unique pcts but even they now lean heavily toward gr/shirt or Prep yrs)

p.s. As to your lame question about "place where?" it would seem obvious to most of us that the coach meant "place at NCAAs" ... what coach would feel "placing 8th or higher at Easterns" would be a key goal for anyone other than a late season alternate?
pps: all decisions are individual, between coach, athlete, family. Trenge was capable of A/A as fr/fr but asked for and received a r/s. Fans can say anything - anywhere - but we obviously have no vote.
Oracle
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Re: SCHEDULE

Post by Oracle » Sun Sep 25, 2022 2:02 pm

DRD: There is no need to defend yourself....your credentials are well-established and beyond reproach.
Mountain Hawk
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Re: SCHEDULE

Post by Mountain Hawk » Sun Sep 25, 2022 2:33 pm

Oracle wrote: Sun Sep 25, 2022 2:02 pm DRD: There is no need to defend yourself....your credentials are well-established and beyond reproach.
A legend in his own mind
drd5748
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Re: SCHEDULE

Post by drd5748 » Sun Sep 25, 2022 3:42 pm

I await better estimates of pct of frosh who r/s
legger
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Re: SCHEDULE

Post by legger » Sun Sep 25, 2022 5:23 pm

Oracle wrote: Sun Sep 25, 2022 2:02 pm DRD: There is no need to defend yourself....your credentials are well-established and beyond reproach.
**** I agree. Denny may over due the stats at time, but he is extremely knowledgeable and credible.
whiz wit
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Re: SCHEDULE

Post by whiz wit » Sun Sep 25, 2022 5:32 pm

Like most rationale people, I assess the merits of an argument by the merits of an argument - and not by the resume or reputation of its proponent.

I advanced 3 rationales for my argument of not routinely red shirting freshman (as opposed to starting the best in a weight class), and an additional one in rebuttal of DRD's response (in which he failed to take present team success into consideration) . Of those 4, DRD only responded to 1 - in which he wrote that NCAA rules undercut one of my rationales - but without pointing out the rule or the how.

And so it goes on this forum.
drd5748
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Re: SCHEDULE

Post by drd5748 » Sun Sep 25, 2022 8:31 pm

Why do I owe you ANY response at all ? You make an allegedly valid argument based on your beliefs:

And I point out in reply that it flies in the face of an entire sport's history of actual coach decision making since the '70's

You're entitled to your opinion but I don't owe you any reply at all; certainly not a pt-by-pt reply. Since when does anyone dictate how a reply should be written? Capeesh?
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