Hawk Talk #3

Talk about the champions, or the Top 25 nationally-ranked team!
LU808
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Re: Hawk Talk #3

Post by LU808 » Fri Jan 20, 2023 3:42 pm

Lehigh should get bold and start a 2 year major in Small Business Entrepreneurship and combined with a skilled trade licensing program. Offer it at a substatially reduced rate from the tradtional University track. Make it an upscale trade school for owner / operators.


Mountain Hawk
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Re: Hawk Talk #3

Post by Mountain Hawk » Fri Jan 20, 2023 4:28 pm

A crackingly good idea
Oracle
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Re: Hawk Talk #3

Post by Oracle » Fri Jan 20, 2023 4:32 pm

Agree. Unfortunately Lehigh has drank too much of their own koolade. They fancy themselves as an elite eastern private school.

There's an old adage: "The A students teach the B students who go to work for the C students."
George Porgie
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Re: Hawk Talk #3

Post by George Porgie » Sat Jan 21, 2023 1:19 pm

Mountain Hawk wrote: Fri Jan 20, 2023 1:27 pm
George Porgie wrote: Fri Jan 20, 2023 12:01 pm
jimk72 wrote: Thu Jan 19, 2023 10:39 pm Interesting wrestling discussion here on the wrestling thread. My dad told me around 1964 when I was in 9th grade, the only thing a college degree does is prove you’re teachable. It might help get your first job, but after that it’s up to you. That’s still true. I agree private education costs have spiraled out of control. And Dr. Aronson (loved him!) said when demand goes down, cost or supply will go down. That’s also still true. Spiraling cost and declining birth rates are real concerns for private education outside of the Ives and other institutions with brand and/or ridiculous endowments.

The system is unsustainable. My prediction is that in 50 years, the university system will not exist as it does today, maybe the Ivies. And you are correct about education. You don't learn the job until you get on the job. When I interviewed for my first Wall St, job, when I told the interviewer I was a musician her response was that they loved people in the arts because they tended to be highly self-motivated. So much for the label, "useless majors".
No, today there are many useless majors. Want to hear some that Lehigh offers:
art, art history, theatre, religion studies, Africana studies, anthropology, economics, environmental studies, political science, psychology, sociology, sociology & anthropology, women, gender & sexuality studies

Oh that will get the gang going. Of course there are exceptions to every rule but if your goal is a high paying career that offers a great return on investment for your nearly 300k 4y degree then these mostly ain't the way.
These are the kids without a job decent enough to come close to sustaining them independently. Most are enjoying the now 3y student loan payback holiday and begging for it all to be put on the taxpayers.

Walk into a Wall St firm today with a music major and see how far you get. The door.
Simple truth is that college isnt for everyone - and that's OK. More kids seem to be turning to the trades now and finding great careers that PAY. A good plumber or electrician is worth their weight in gold to a homeowner and not easy to find. Lehigh hangs tough with national ROI because of the heavy accounting pipeline to the big acctg firms, WallSters, and engineers. Good thing so close to NYC that many kids connect well into decent paying metro NE jobs. From LU's own website:
A&S Busn Eng
Starting salary 56k 68K 72k
% employed 52 81 69
% continuing ed 43 15 28

note that the A&S numbers include the integrated degree in Engr and A&S and drags that 56k number higher that it would be without those engineers. Obv starting salary not the whole story but its a start.
You couldn't be more off of the mark. I teach in the music department. So I guess you consider what I teach useless as well. The United States is so far down the line in terms of science and math education compared to Japan, Germany and China. Almost every other country of note, the Scandinavians, Asians, most of the socialized and social democratic countries of the world surpass the U.S. in terms of innovation and technology. The reason is that education is free in most of these countries. Students in these places study engineering, business and all of the useless courses that develop abstract thinking because they are passionate about them. Most in our colleges study these subjects because it's about the expense of college and making money afterward. Of course many engineering and business majors are passionate about learning but with this huge sword of Damocles hanging over their heads, yet another useless literary reference. American students can't spell, can't write and have low reading comprehension. Not their fault of course, because we don't teach English anymore in our schools.The reason? Because it doesn't lead to high paying jobs in the eyes of our business bean counting overseers. Ironically a large portion of the students in my useless classes are engineering majors. Often admissions contacts me about recruiting a brilliant prospective because they are passionate about the useless crap that I teach. The largest portion of students in the arts are some of the most highly sought after intellectual prospectives. I am sick and tired of the arrogance of those who obviously believe that their career choice makes them superior intellectually to people choosing less lucrative career paths and people who subscribe to a different value system. The obvious inability of this board to concentrate on wrestling is suspect. I don't give a damn about your political affiliations, and how you feel about what I teach. I guess that's why I'm constantly amazed when I hear an announcer on the Big Ten network refer to a pin or a fall as a "PINFALL". Oh our team is rebuilding of course. According to many of you, it sucks because of what Lehigh teaches, it sucks because everyone on the team isn't studying engineering or going to be rich or be able to repay their student loans as if the ridiculous tuition fees were their fault. Our total preoccupation with wealth is the culprit. Your post demonstrates what is wrong not what is right. Maybe if you spent your time talking about wrestling I wouldn't be wasting my time writing a post that most of you won't read anyway. WE HAVE TROUBLE COMPETING NOW BECAUSE COLLEGE SPORTS HAVE BECOME ALL ABOUT MONEY !!!!!!!! Rutgers, Maryland and Nebraska joined the Big Ten network because of revenue from broadcasting. Screw traditon, screw the love of the sport, let's make money. I think Lehigh Wrestling is amazing. Against all odds. You Lehigh grads, what was your tuition? Stop confusing education, learning and knowledge with earning potential. It paints commitment to thought a very ugly color. I am sorry to those of you that are not part of this assault on knowledge and thought. But for those who are, those who are so lacking the awareness to see that we are shooting ourselves in the foot, those that applaud raping taxpayers because Wall Street lost when they gambled, I'm out. It's not important whether you read or respond to this. I've had mixed feelings about reading the useless crap on the Lehigh Sports Forum for a long time. No wonder the coaches tell the wrestlers not to read it. Later.
lu_alum
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Re: Hawk Talk #3

Post by lu_alum » Sat Jan 21, 2023 1:37 pm

George Porgie wrote: Sat Jan 21, 2023 1:19 pm Ironically a large portion of the students in my useless classes are engineering majors.
That’s because the engineering majors are using the easy “A” from your class to help boost their GPA.
Spladle1989
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Re: Hawk Talk #3

Post by Spladle1989 » Sat Jan 21, 2023 1:47 pm

To me you both are right, the problem is in the percentages and the value of a well rounded education…..

Everyone can’t major in “the arts” or what would actually get done in this country? Also not everyone can be a math/science major or what gets done?? You need to build back the trades, we can’t be a country of paper pushing finance people, the arts people or engineering/design type people….. we need to actually “make” something in this country and people to do it….. carpenters, electricians, plumbers, machinists…..cripes I have freinds who call a plumber when their toilet gets plugged, and complain how hard it is to find a plumber and how expensive they are and how the plumber is basically “stealing” from them….and the majority of people doing these jobs will be retiring in the next 5-10 years…..don’t complain what others are charging if you are unwilling or unable to do something yourself, because at that point you are leaving it in the hands of supply and demand….

So whether you choose to go arts and sciences, engineering , finance or whatever understand the costs involved and what your return on investment will be when done…i think engineers should be asked to take courses in english, music, art whatever to make them better rounded…..business majors should be asked to take courses in ethics, music, art whatever…. But majoring in these subjects at a school like Lehigh?…..fine but then don’t complain on debt you’ve chosen to incur and don’t ask me to pay your debt because you didnt think this thru…..I believe in a well rounded education, but that doesn’t mean I agree you should go $200,000 or more in debt to become an art teacher at Lehigh when you could have gone $30,000 in debt to get the same job from Penn State (assuming you are PA resident)…..this is not anti arts and sciences its common sense…..
Last edited by Spladle1989 on Sat Jan 21, 2023 4:22 pm, edited 3 times in total.
Asa Packer
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Re: Hawk Talk #3

Post by Asa Packer » Sat Jan 21, 2023 1:50 pm

I appreciate your intelligent, passionate response. So, my take:
No, today there are several useless majors. Want to hear some that Lehigh offer: art history, religion studies, Africana studies, women, gender & sexuality studies
What on earth does one do with a degree in gender studies? :roll: :lol:
FloridaGuy
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Re: Hawk Talk #3

Post by FloridaGuy » Sat Jan 21, 2023 2:01 pm

>>>>>>>>Lehigh wan’t co-ed when I started, but I still spent significant time studying the other gender.

It was, of course,a simpler time with only two genders
LU808
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Re: Hawk Talk #3

Post by LU808 » Sat Jan 21, 2023 2:10 pm

FloridaGuy wrote: Sat Jan 21, 2023 2:01 pm >>>>>>>>Lehigh wan’t co-ed when I started, but I still spent significant time studying the other gender.

It was, of course,a simpler time with only two genders
And it was so much more fun to just audit the class instead of going for the grade.
Red Blades
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Re: Hawk Talk #3

Post by Red Blades » Sat Jan 21, 2023 3:07 pm

I've resisted signing up on this forum for quite some time - because maybe sometimes it's better to just listen (or read) and not talk (or write)? But this discussion always intrigues me...

Ah yes - the age-old question - the arts, or the sciences? Which is superior?

There's an old book that was something of a cult hit back in the 70's - Zen and the Art of Motorcycle Maintenance - in which the author (Robert Persig) discusses this question (among other things) in some detail, and indeed, traces the disagreement back to Plato and Aristotle. And he opens up the question, why should they be considered as separate areas of knowledge? Maybe they are just two different ways of looking at one world?

Hey - I hope all of my Lehigh buddies are doing well! Maybe I'll see some of you at the Palestra?

D-3 - here's lifting a fine pint of ale to your general direction! :D
Mookie - give my regards to Toast! 8-)
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