Hawk Talk #3

[Richb-3]

More and More Obvious that Spladle and Mountain Hawk never went to Lehigh, or if they did had, zero friends.

pretty unintelligent comment coming from someone who professes to teach.

Where did I ever say I was a teacher?

[legger]

**** I have to agree with MH and Spladle on this. Most private schools are bloated and excessively expensive. Extreme layers of unneeded administration only adds to the swing to the left and the expanding of useless majors. Tenured jobs like Director on Inclusion and Micro Aggression further enhance the shift to the left. My son went to a private school (not Lehigh), but still very expensive. He has a lot of debt but thankfully he got a doctorate in a field that will allow him to pay back his loans.

[Richb-3]

More and More Obvious that Spladle and Mountain Hawk never went to Lehigh, or if they did had, zero friends.

pretty unintelligent comment coming from someone who professes to teach.

WHERE DID I EVER SAY I WAS A TEACHER?

[George Porgie]

Lawyers and Wall Street types never seem to struggle to pay back their college loans.

Nurses and HS science teachers often struggle to back back college loans.

Solution per the anti education folks. More Law students and more finance majors; fewer nursing and science education students??????????????

A college education was not measured in dollars and post-college earning power when I went to school. The system was originally intended to be an academic and social exploration for kids entering adulthood.. I went to a state school, got a great education and found what I was passionate about all for $500.00 a year. Now with college tuition at the level it is, we've turned colleges and universities into trade schools. There is no such thing as a worthless degree if you learn and discover. We do need teachers and nurses as well as rich people. The universities are now run on a business model and nothing matters except how much much the school takes in. It's no longer run by people who understand education. That's why wrestling will never be as important as football or basketball because it doesn't make as much money for the school, regardless of tradition. So we continue to count beans and attempt to force all kids and teachers to adhere to a single value system, determined by profit. Now maybe basketball and other sports don't make more money at Lehigh, but it does most other places. That becomes the model for every scholastic business plan regardless of the tradition that attracted me to teach here. I wanted to teach at Lehigh because I was a wrestler and met Mike Caruso and Bill Stuart in the late sixties when I was in high school. It's also a great school but that is what caught my attention.

[Spladle1989]

a college degree wasnt measured that way back then because back then a college degree meant you would get a job upon graduating regardless of major choice…..and would be ahead financially just because you had a degree…..so you could afford to look at college as this wonderful growth experience….. now apprentice plumbers, carpenters, welders make more than college grads of the same age and don’t have ridiculous debt…..and their potential earnings aren’t capped by not having a degree, their demand is only going to grow as the few left doing those skills retire…..

Lehigh Professor Aronson eco 101… supply and demand….higher demand for skilled tradesman right now and in the foreseeable future than for college grads with fluff degrees but damn a great social growth experience….. which I’m not sure Lehigh actually provides anymore anyway, though it sure did at one time

[Mountain Hawk]

These last two posts completely nailed it. If anyone out there has a fluffy Univ admin job <wink><wink>, count your blessings. The model is changing.

[George Porgie]

These last two posts completely nailed it. If anyone out there has a fluffy Univ admin job <wink><wink>, count your blessings. The model is changing.

At last some agreement (wink-wink).

[jimk72]

Interesting wrestling discussion here on the wrestling thread. My dad told me around 1964 when I was in 9th grade, the only thing a college degree does is prove you’re teachable. It might help get your first job, but after that it’s up to you. That’s still true. I agree private education costs have spiraled out of control. And Dr. Aronson (loved him!) said when demand goes down, cost or supply will go down. That’s also still true. Spiraling cost and declining birth rates are real concerns for private education outside of the Ives and other institutions with brand and/or ridiculous endowments.

[George Porgie]

Interesting wrestling discussion here on the wrestling thread. My dad told me around 1964 when I was in 9th grade, the only thing a college degree does is prove you’re teachable. It might help get your first job, but after that it’s up to you. That’s still true. I agree private education costs have spiraled out of control. And Dr. Aronson (loved him!) said when demand goes down, cost or supply will go down. That’s also still true. Spiraling cost and declining birth rates are real concerns for private education outside of the Ives and other institutions with brand and/or ridiculous endowments.

The system is unsustainable. My prediction is that in 50 years, the university system will not exist as it does today, maybe the Ivies. And you are correct about education. You don't learn the job until you get on the job. When I interviewed for my first Wall St, job, when I told the interviewer I was a musician her response was that they loved people in the arts because they tended to be highly self-motivated. So much for the label, "useless majors".

[Mountain Hawk]

Interesting wrestling discussion here on the wrestling thread. My dad told me around 1964 when I was in 9th grade, the only thing a college degree does is prove you’re teachable. It might help get your first job, but after that it’s up to you. That’s still true. I agree private education costs have spiraled out of control. And Dr. Aronson (loved him!) said when demand goes down, cost or supply will go down. That’s also still true. Spiraling cost and declining birth rates are real concerns for private education outside of the Ives and other institutions with brand and/or ridiculous endowments.

The system is unsustainable. My prediction is that in 50 years, the university system will not exist as it does today, maybe the Ivies. And you are correct about education. You don't learn the job until you get on the job. When I interviewed for my first Wall St, job, when I told the interviewer I was a musician her response was that they loved people in the arts because they tended to be highly self-motivated. So much for the label, "useless majors".

No, today there are many useless majors. Want to hear some that Lehigh offers:
art, art history, theatre, religion studies, Africana studies, anthropology, economics, environmental studies, political science, psychology, sociology, sociology & anthropology, women, gender & sexuality studies

Oh that will get the gang going. Of course there are exceptions to every rule but if your goal is a high paying career that offers a great return on investment for your nearly 300k 4y degree then these mostly ain't the way.
These are the kids without a job decent enough to come close to sustaining them independently. Most are enjoying the now 3y student loan payback holiday and begging for it all to be put on the taxpayers.

Walk into a Wall St firm today with a music major and see how far you get. The door.
Simple truth is that college isnt for everyone - and that's OK. More kids seem to be turning to the trades now and finding great careers that PAY. A good plumber or electrician is worth their weight in gold to a homeowner and not easy to find. Lehigh hangs tough with national ROI because of the heavy accounting pipeline to the big acctg firms, WallSters, and engineers. Good thing so close to NYC that many kids connect well into decent paying metro NE jobs. From LU's own website:
A&S Busn Eng
Starting salary 56k 68K 72k
% employed 52 81 69
% continuing ed 43 15 28

note that the A&S numbers include the integrated degree in Engr and A&S and drags that 56k number higher that it would be without those engineers. Obv starting salary not the whole story but its a start.