Still Cloudy

[martinsilvestri]

It's been beaten to death, so whatever, but it's just a problem with the trajectory of wrestling. Not blaming Pat or the other coaches or anybody. It would really be the NCAA to decide that dual meets matter and adjust the rules accordingly. Until then of course can't fault coaches for doing what they need to do and throwing a dual or two to protect the tournament guys. But I get it, nobody who matters sees it that way.

[Oracle]

Back in the Caruso Era, there were roughly 10-12 duals per year. Once a week. Guys were free to enter Christmas tournaments if they wanted. Many from LI entered the CW Post Christmas Tournament, others from PA and NJ entered Wilkes. Very few, if any went to Midlands. That started with Thad. Caruso had a 3-year varsity record of 57-1 -- that's only 19 bouts per year ending as national champ.

With one dual per week, it was an event. That's no longer the case. You can hardly blame anyone for the de-emphasis of duals. They are important but not to the point a guy gets ruined for the post season. Maybe blame Dale Thomas, Oregon State coach who wrestled his guys 40-50 times per year.

The muscle mass of the athletes today is the single greatest difference in wrestling. That's why I always bring up horsepower. When Jon Rushatz wrestled, he was unique. Today, everyone looks like Rushatz. About 20 years ago I interviewed Rob Koll for WrestlingReport.com and asked him the biggest difference he's seen over his 10 years (at that time) coaching....he didn't even hesitate: "musculature" (his word)

The sport evolved. Year-round lifting is essential today, rare back when. Year-round wrestling essential today, rare back when. Out of season competitions essential today, rare back when. Teams had a head coach and 1 assistant. Today a head coach and 3-4 assistants. RTCs essential today, non-existent back when.

No one to blame. Duals matter. The guys that got to wrestle on Sunday were thrilled to do so. They got their shot.It was exciting. You carry 45 guys on the team -- use them. These days it's kinda necessary to have serious depth.

It's all good fellas.

[Spladle1989]

Oracle, pretty much everything you said is correct and I agree that is how it is and how it is going to go.....I'll also say I don't like the product nearly as much as the product of old......

As a Lehigh wrestling fan the best part of the season is the duals and the EIWA's......yeah the NCAA's are great but it's two days and done for most Lehigh wrestlers, often 1 day and done.......there are very few guys no matter how they "prepare" for the post season that will have any success at NCAA's......am I looking forward to watching 7 or 8 PSU guys in the finals? Not so much.....enjoy watching a typical in season Lehigh dual more than the NCAA finals most years save for a couple highlight matches........its the same with the NFL, once the Bill's are out my interest disappears quickly......

It's a common theme in all sports these days both professional and college.....pro leagues in all sports are realizing they are losing fans to regular season events and trying to figure out how to sell tickets to a regular season that they are being told pretty much doesn't matter.....in hockey there is basically no physical play until the playoffs, then suddenly its like hockey of old once the playoffs start.......basketball has to pass rules about resting star players because coaches just want there players ready at playoff time, they even instituted a "in season" tournament to try to maintain interest.....don't get me started on the changes baseball is making to try to make people care for 162 regular season games......football is the only sport that the regular season really matters anymore because with only 17 regular season games every game is critical......

So yeah I get what you're saying and you're not wrong.....but It's not the product I look forward to nearly as much anymore......

[Oracle]

Spladle makes many valid points. I would agree the ‘product’ is less desirable. Just not sure how to bring back in season excitement across the board.

[lu_alum]

My speculation is that we'll see Stanich as follows:

9-Feb: Bucknell
24-Feb: @ Arizona State - #11/#14 Figueroa (IM/Flo ranks)
8-Mar: EIWA (two weigh-ins)
21-Mar: NCAA (three weigh-ins)

That puts him on a schedule to (weigh-in and) compete every two weeks, with another opportunity against a ranked opponent prior to EIWAs. Over the six week timeframe, he would only have to hit the scale seven more times for the four events.

He already beat Figueroa so give Seymour the bout - esp if the hand keeps improving.

Not seeing Figueroa on his record. Figueroa defaulted out of the Midlands.

Date Opponent (School) Result Score/Time
11/5 Kyle Hill (Rider)! W Fall, 1:15
Noah Tonsor (Army)! W TF, 18-2, 4:55
Joe Couch (Army)! W TF, 19-4, 4:24
Joziah Fry (Johnson & Wales)! W 11-4

11/19 Colton Camacho (Pitt) W 8-5

12/8 Troy Spratley (Okla. St.) L 4-2

12/29 Lugman Masud (Missouri)@ W Fall, 0:58
Diego Sotelo (Harvard)@ W Fall, 4:16
Eric Barnett (Wisconsin)@ W 8-5

12/30 Cooper Flynn (Virginia Tech)@ W 5-3
Elijah Griffin (CBU)@ W 8-7, tb

1/13 Brett Ungar (Cornell) W 3-0

1/28 Gabe Giampietro (Drexel)# W TF, 21-4, 4:33
Matthew Ricci (Navy)# W Fall, 1:13
Charlie Farmer (Army)# W TF, 19-4, 6:23

[jdalu75]

My speculation is that we'll see Stanich as follows:

9-Feb: Bucknell
24-Feb: @ Arizona State - #11/#14 Figueroa (IM/Flo ranks)
8-Mar: EIWA (two weigh-ins)
21-Mar: NCAA (three weigh-ins)

That puts him on a schedule to (weigh-in and) compete every two weeks, with another opportunity against a ranked opponent prior to EIWAs. Over the six week timeframe, he would only have to hit the scale seven more times for the four events.

I had been thinking that way, but my guess now is that we see Stanich in just one more dual. Reason: he's competed in four team events so far and the limit for freshmen is five to still have the redshirt option. If Stanich is injured in his sixth event, it could keep him out of EIWAs and his redshirt option would be gone. They've been very careful so far; I think that we see him against Princeton -- his 15th bout (gets him RPI eligibility), three weeks before EIWAs.

In the meantime, Seymour needs one more bout to be eligible for an RPI ranking; I'm sure the staff wants him able to earn a pre-allocated spot if, for whatever reason, Stanich can't go.

[jdalu75]

Back in the Caruso Era, there were roughly 10-12 duals per year. Once a week. Guys were free to enter Christmas tournaments if they wanted. Many from LI entered the CW Post Christmas Tournament, others from PA and NJ entered Wilkes. Very few, if any went to Midlands. That started with Thad. Caruso had a 3-year varsity record of 57-1 -- that's only 19 bouts per year ending as national champ.

I remember an interview that Mike gave some years ago and the subject of "too many events" came up; he said that in his entire wrestling career, HS and college, he'd wrestled in xx tournaments -- I don't recall the exact number, but it wasn't many. Probably under a dozen, six in college (might have been seven -- wasn't there sort of a JV EIWAs back in the '60s?). He definitely thought that 200 bouts in high school and another 150 in college were too many.

[Richb-3]

Besides Caruso the greatest wrestler associated with Lehigh right away said "Too many competitions" Not sure if he said it in English or Russian, Sergei Beloglazov.

[ngineer]

Like a lot of sports...the body can only take so much. As pointed out, so much less stress on the body in decades past. Now, the kids are going at it year round from junior high onward. The joints and the muscles get overly worn...without getting into the mental part. We have seen the ol' "burnout" occur with a number of athletes. Of course, behind everything is $$$.

[George Porgie]

Like a lot of sports...the body can only take so much. As pointed out, so much less stress on the body in decades past. Now, the kids are going at it year round from junior high onward. The joints and the muscles get overly worn...without getting into the mental part. We have seen the ol' "burnout" occur with a number of athletes. Of course, behind everything is $$$.

I hate to say it but burnout could possibly explain middle weights who were stars in high school and by college lose the spark. I suspect we may have seen it in the past with David Craig who got to Lehigh, fulfilled his part of the deal and said I don't like wrestling anymore. And I can understand it. When I was in high school in the 60s, I wrestled 10 dual meet matches and the county tournament (probably 3 or 4 more). That was it.

Had I been any good I could have gone got districts and states but that didn't happen. But the matches I got were plenty. And that wasn't in Pa., N.J. or N.Y., it was in a far less competitive environment than that. Just a thought but it could explain a lot of things I see that don't make sense. With all of the tournaments I get dizzy. It's an opportunity to get in a good school and be able to pay for it so I get it. I admire those students that go to school and manage. It's a lot.